1. Hello and welcome to the brand new home for PlayDota!
    Please read through our Welcome thread to see what's new!
    Dismiss Notice

Urn of Soul (Support item)

Discussion in 'Item Ideas' started by MindTrickZ, Oct 12, 2017 at 7:53 AM.

  1. MindTrickZ

    MindTrickZ Member

    481
    29
    28
    Sep 24, 2009
    Good day my dear friends. Today we gonna discuss new item that is possible upgrade to Urn of Shadows and Bottle.

    • URN OF SOULS

      [​IMG]

      RECIPE

      [​IMG] +[​IMG] +[​IMG] = 4725 (mb w/ recipe)
      or
      [​IMG] +[​IMG] +[​IMG]+[​IMG] = 3925 (mb w/ recipe)
      or
      [​IMG] +[​IMG] +[​IMG]+[​IMG] +[​IMG] = 5325 (1500)


      STATS
      Actives: Rune Release, Soul Release.
      Charges: up to 3 (3/1).
      Passives: Store Rune, Soul Rune.
      Bonus:
      • +2 Strength
      • +2 Agility
      • +2 Intelligence
      • +2 Armor
      • +10 Attack damage
      • + depending on recipe HP/MP increase.
      ABILITY
      Active : Rune Release

      Activates stored rune on Target Hero with positive bonuses on ally and negative on enemy. Available only with rune in it.
      ..
      note:
      1. Allies gain same effects as current Power-up runes do.
      2. Enemies gain reverse effects as current Power-up runes do.
      3. Ex. illusions from enemy belong to you, haste sets ms to min (100), DD halves damage, invisibility reveals (prevents invo), arcane increases cd and mc, regenaration degens -10HP and -6.7MP p/s (balance upcoming).
      4. Bounty Rune and Soul Rune are exceptions, activated on self w/ targeting as Doube tap.
      5. Activating the Power-up run grants 1 Soul Release charge, Soul Runes 3 and Bounty runes do not. Picking PU rune while having 1 charge, additively grants +1, so after activation u will have 2. No charge loss. Runes do not refresh charges.
      Active : Soul Release
      Multiple times Increases HP/MP regeneration when cast on ally and Decreases when cast on enemy over short period or until reaches the limit cap (threshold).

      Cast Range: 950
      Charges: 3
      Multiplier: 5
      Ally HP/MP Regen threshold: 600
      Enemy HP/MP Degen threshold: 600
      Duration: 4

      [​IMG] 1

      [​IMG] Can be cast on spell immune allies. Cannot be cast on spell immune enemies.
      [​IMG] Not blocked by Linkin
      Modifiers
      [​IMG] Item Urn Regen: Dispellable with any dispel.
      [​IMG] Item Urn Degen: Dispellable with any dispel.

      Note:
      1. Multiplies only heroes HP/MP regeneration numbers. Not flat healing.
      2. Effect is stopped beforehand of duration if reaches cap of MP or HP (which is first) regen/degen and waits threshold change.
      3. Checks the affected units' current health and sets +/- threshold. Same as Maledict.
      4. Do not gain charges from Fountains's Rejuvination Aura. Only by runes.
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Passive:
      Store Rune

      Runes can be stored in the Urn for later use, and are activated automatically after 2 minutes.
      Cast Range: 100
      Max Rune Store Duration: 120
      [​IMG] 0.5

      Notes
      1. the same with bottle.

      Passive: Soul Rune

      Creates a Soul Rune every time an enemy hero dies within radius. Enemy whose soul Runed or Urned cannot buyback until his soul is free, consumed or Holder (wielder) dies.

      Soul Rune duration: 5 seconds
      Creation Range: 900
      [​IMG] 0.5

      NOTES
      1. Rune cannot be picked without Urn of Souls and CAN be destroyed with regular attack.
      2. Rune disappears after duration and only after that Hero can buyback.
      3. Soul Rune store duration 55 seconds. For balance purpose.
      4. Soul Rune grants 3 charges of Soul Release if activated.
      5. Soul Rune released on death.
      6. Autoconsumes rune after captured enemy revived by penalty timing end.
      ___________________________________________________________________________

      Most of item mechanics are similar to those of Bottles's. Can be upgraded from shared Bottle.

      Ability to Activate Power-up runes on enemies can be removed. Waiting for your thoughts.
    • URN OF SOUL - 5775 gold

      [​IMG]

      RECIPE
      [​IMG] +[​IMG] +[​IMG]
      STATSAbilities: Active and Passive
      Charges: 0
      Bonus:
      • +2 Strength
      • +2 Agility
      • +2 Intelligence
      • +2 Armor
      • +10 Attack damage
      • +425 Health
      • +425 Mana
      • +12 Health regeneration
      • +2 Mana regeneration
      • +125% Mana regeneration
      ABILITYActive : Soul Release Multiple times Increases HP/MP regeneration when cast on ally and Decreases when cast on enemy over short period or until reaches the limit cap (threshold).
      Cast Range: 950
      Charges: 1
      Charge Gain Radius: 1400
      Multiplier: 5
      Ally Total HP/MP Regen: 600
      Enemy Total HP/MP Degen: 600
      Duration: 5

      [​IMG] 10

      [​IMG] Can be cast on spell immune allies. Cannot be cast on spell immune enemies.
      [​IMG] Not blocked by Linkin
      Modifiers
      [​IMG] Item Urn Regen: Dispellable with any dispel.
      [​IMG] Item Urn Degen: Dispellable with any dispel.
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Passive: Soul CaptureGains charge every time an enemy hero dies within radius. Enemy that charged Urn cannotbuybackuntil his soul is consumed or catcher dies.NOTES
      1. Can keep only 1 enemy soul (charge), starting with 0.
      2. Does not loss effect if damaged. Can only be dispelled.
      3. Soul charge released on death.
      4. Autoconsumes charge on self after captured enemy revived by penalty timing end.
      5. Multiplies only heroes HP/MP regeneration numbers. Not flat healing.
      6. Stacks with Urn of Shadow effects and doesnot prevent gaining charges too. Charge granted to both items.
      7. However only the closest Urn of Soul to the dying hero will gain a charge.
      8. Effect is stopped beforehand of duration if reaches cap of MP or HP (which is first) regen/degen.
      9. Cannot gain charges during cooldown.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Item is good alternative change to removal of buyback block by Reaper's Scythe. Additionally synergistic with regeneration talents.

    Thanks for your comments in advance. Another remarks and tweaks upcoming.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017 at 10:42 AM
  2. ThunderTF2

    ThunderTF2 New Member

    55
    3
    8
    Dec 27, 2011
    Too weak?
    Thats simply x5 hp/mp regens with 600 cap or 600 hp/mp regen delayed.
     
  3. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

    17,519
    362
    83
    Sep 21, 2010
    The active is rather weak, while the passive is strong af.
     
  4. MindTrickZ

    MindTrickZ Member

    481
    29
    28
    Sep 24, 2009
    I think I should give some examples with numbers so that we could understand each other.
    ex.#1: item itself grants 12 hp regen while under effect it boosts up until 60 (12x5) hp/s. With 5 seconds duration totally 300 hp regen.

    ex.#2: Chemical Rage grants on 3rd level 100 hp/s, thus if ally u increase his regen up to 500hp p/s, if enemy degen 400 hp p/s (as 500-100 hp)

    I'm still considering more appropriate balance numbers between duration and limit cap. Because if 600 cap is low we still can increase duration so that delayed effect would be more effective.

    ex.#3: After reaching the cap if allied hero is damaged he will continue regenerating up to threshold and if enemy healed continue to lose health and mp.

    This time I hope it will be more clear for you on subject. What do you suggest guys, increase duration or threshold?
     
  5. ThunderTF2

    ThunderTF2 New Member

    55
    3
    8
    Dec 27, 2011
    Does it affect only hp regen or all hp gain (lifesteal, heals)?
    It doesnt use charges for active?
    It does need lower multiplier and base.
     
  6. MindTrickZ

    MindTrickZ Member

    481
    29
    28
    Sep 24, 2009
    Active part affects only HP and MP regeneration. No lifesteal or insta-heals are affected.
    Gains charge after enemy's death in 1400 AoE. Consumes charge for active part.
    Big multiplier is a main part to differ from other healing sources. ex. Bloodstone. This item is good as counter to Bloodstone, as MKB does for Butterfly. But at the same time synergy well too. This is a supportive item, dont forget, and the most expensive in category.
     
  7. ThunderTF2

    ThunderTF2 New Member

    55
    3
    8
    Dec 27, 2011
    Why does it has such low cd, but hold only 1 charge?
     
  8. MindTrickZ

    MindTrickZ Member

    481
    29
    28
    Sep 24, 2009
    In case you wanna change captured soul. During cooldown soul catcher is disabled. Still, If duration is changed I could increase it for balance side.

    I've additional idea making Passive Soul Catcher active too. Something like, you course enemy and if he dies during effect, soul is catched.
     
  9. flamegod0

    flamegod0 Member

    346
    78
    28
    Sep 26, 2009
    I would say preventing BB is hella strong. But, the active is quite underwhelming in comparison. The thing is, I think the active is fine, however, the passive is OP.
    Remember necrophos old agh upgrade right. I would say no one would use that active even if support soul is in it, except when going to switch soul (in late game situation).
     
  10. Dzin-Zakk

    Dzin-Zakk Member

    2,534
    3
    38
    Jan 9, 2010
    I don't think a support item should cost more than ~4'000 gold ever. Putting a Soul Booster in your recipe makes it overly expensive for it does - compare it to other items with SB in them: they have defining features abilities that make them usefull outside this +400 hp/mp.

    Also it makes your passive bonus stat a clusterfaq of 8 lines.

    • +2 All sats
    • +2 Armor
    • +10 Attack damage
    • +425 Health
    • +425 Mana
    • +12 Health regeneration
    • +2 Mana regeneration
    • +125% Mana regeneration

    Although I liked the idea of non-buyback however the urge to consume the single charge is too big.
     
  11. MindTrickZ

    MindTrickZ Member

    481
    29
    28
    Sep 24, 2009
    Yeah I mentioned Necrophos in main thread, this is why Im suggestiong it. When something benefits only one teams it is strong but this is ITEM so both teams can purchase it. Still it is not cheap. There is many others thing you would like to buy. This item would be situational.
    And yes I agree with you and other guys from above, it looks OP. Maybe in couple of days I will add another variation mixed with active stealing Soul. As soon as I have more spare time, idea itself is ready.

    We already have Greaves that are 5375. Not mentioning situational refresh and Agh's scepter. Overly expensive? cmon dude it has strong abilities, Im even thinking of increasing cost. Soul booster there because its effects are similar to those items you stating. Type of Regenaration and fatness. additional reason that holder should be fat as his death releases Captured Hero.

    Im still thinking of recipe. In near future I will replace Perseverance with Bottle and maybe SoulB w\ 2 Point Boosters. Increase charges to 3 and other new stuff.

    Stay tuned. 2nd variation upcoming soon. thanks guys for you help.
     
    flamegod0 likes this.
  12. MindTrickZ

    MindTrickZ Member

    481
    29
    28
    Sep 24, 2009
    Main Thread Changed. Added absolutely new mechanics and abilities. Soul Rune and Rune Release. Looking forward your comments. Tried to balance OPness of non-buyback.
     
  13. ThunderTF2

    ThunderTF2 New Member

    55
    3
    8
    Dec 27, 2011
    Rune collect + release = ultra good
    Soul release + Soul collect = still unbalanced combo.