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The biggest blunders of Icefrog

Discussion in 'Dota Chat' started by Equivocal, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    Let's list some of the biggest mistakes the frog has ever released to the official Dota (2) build
    In descending order:
    1. Respawn time talents
    2. 6.82 Fresh Rubberband gold bounties
    3. 7.15 Bountyrunes
    4. 6.76 Fresh Centaur Warwinner
    5. Fresh Earthspirit
    6. Nerfling changes circa 6.75 (although somewhat justified)
    7. Precision Aura
    8. Static damage Familiars
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  2. F. E. A. R.

    F. E. A. R. Member

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    1. As far as I know the respawn time talents got removed because they were ridiculous.
    2. Bounty runes was a stupid idea, he could've came up with a better new rune.

    The biggest mistake if you ask me is the experience and gold mechanics. Less punishment, easier comeback. So that newbs wouldn't find the game hard.
     
  3. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    You weren't around back in 6.82? 3k gold from a kill was a pretty common sight

    I am not a big fan of bounty runes either.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  4. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    Static damage familiars are not even bad. They're actually way better in general.
     
  5. F. E. A. R.

    F. E. A. R. Member

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    Yes I was. Wasn't the new experience and gold mechanics introduced somewhere between 6.80-6.84 (or was it precisely 6.82?). I was reading the changes when the patch came and a few hours later DotaCinema released the difference between the old mechanics and the new. Just killing a hero with a godlike streak would get you to level 14 with 3k gold if you were level 8. It was toned down a bit right after. But I still don't like it. If memory serves, I know there were experience and gold mechanics changes in older versions, but they were never BULLSHIT as the one released in 6.82. Because now it's easier for a team to make a comeback while the other is stomping their asses.
     
  6. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    You needed to have 2,5/2,1875/2,083 old Familiar charges in order to deal as much damage as fams do now. This counts as a gigantic nerf in my book. Unless you have Drow in your team, it is way worse than before.

    You need to attack 12/13/14 times with new familiars in order to deal more damage than what the old familiars did. Not to mention the new damage system is hard countered by Damage block.

    Static damage change also gutted the synergy with Soul Assumption, and removed Stone form damage cycles. Both of these made the hero somewhat interesting, now they are just flying Centaurs.


    I kinda think comeback gold is okay right now. It's not as punishing or ridiculous as in 6.82, which was clearly the bottom of the barrel, hence being second on the list.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  7. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    You're thinking about it the wrong way. Your application is only realistic when you're bursting a hero, and that isn't the only application of familiars in this game. The flat damage change is superior when it comes to farming as well as pushing. He also has +1 familiar at 25 now, which turns him into one of the most annoying heroes to deal with later in the game.

    There are players that spam visage mid/offlane and own pretty consistently. Most people can't play the hero and/or haven't adapted to that change. Those who were able to adapt have changed their playstyle to be more farm and split oriented while still being scary in fights are successful with the hero.

    I'd also like to point out that grave chill now affects familiars, and when you give that movement speed and attack speed to units that have .4 BAT, you're heavily increasing their attacks/second.
     
  8. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    @Blarrg Yes I am well aware of that people play him as core exclusively now because his support playstyle was gutted with all this forced synergy and especially the flat familiar damage. From an interesting support hero with high burst capabilities and global ganks, yet with obvious weaknesses into a 1 unit group armageddon of birds with right click. One of my favorite heroes got overhauled into this boring atrocity.
     
  9. Daddy Sven

    Daddy Sven Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't hate bounties now as I hate the way they were introduced. The idea of having a bounty rune to recharge your bottle or help out a roaming support was nice all... But the forced fights over those bounties at 0:00 destroyed lv1 ganking and more so lv1 smoke ganks, which were not only fun to do, but fun to watch in the pro scene as well.
     
  10. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    Nerfing Phoenix into the piece of shit he is now is probably the most glaring mistake that comes to mind.
     
  11. fine93

    fine93 Member

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    number 1: making a dota sequel
     
  12. Bargh

    Bargh Member

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    1. Listening to leddit.
    2. Copying hots/lol
    3. Making dota "(L)esports" only and not skill-based pub game dota always were
     
  13. Eli_Green

    Eli_Green Member

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  14. Daddy Sven

    Daddy Sven Moderator Staff Member

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    playdota.reborn

    Removing Soul Steal from TerrorBlade.
    Making Shrapnel charge based.
    Not resolving and refining Chen's gimmick.
    Insisting to stop development on Playdota.com so other forums can grow.
    Insisting users to not post bug reports in PD.
    Releasing unrefined glitchy content, without any fix for months.
    Treant Protector's numerous shitty reworks(current state included)
    Free for all style of balancing with hit or miss role defining aspects (250 IAS Crystal Maiden)
    Arc Warden
    Bloodseeker's dumb looking model(Dota2)
    Wraith King still having only 1 ability
    RNG heavy power boosts
    Moving away from stage oriented balancing
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
    frigidsoul and fine93 like this.
  15. dewouter

    dewouter Moderator Staff Member

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    Soul steal was a great spell, but I generally disagree with the other points except the obvious you can't disagree with :cat:
     
  16. Rubz

    Rubz Member

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    Posting cat pics.
     
  17. Crazy-Stoner

    Crazy-Stoner Member

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    Letting the professional community dictate how heroes are balanced and remade.
    PL was remade for the simple reason pros hated playing vs it.

    What would dendi know about balancing fucken keeper of the light? FUCK ALL.
    Thats why the hero hasn't changed, infact the only change keeper of the light recieved was a drop in starting HP after it became firstpick down here in Aus/NZ as a solo offlaner.
     
    fine93 likes this.
  18. Louie!

    Louie! Member

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    Pls forgive me
     
  19. MrFrank

    MrFrank Member

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    Ok, we cool fam.
     
  20. Crazy-Stoner

    Crazy-Stoner Member

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    Listening to players about balance when ranked games based on MMR is the underlying endgame.
    Obviously players are always going to attempt to swindle the frog into giving them a hero inwhich they can reach stupid MMR's with due to ilbalance.

    RTZ is not the best player in the world, the dude is a joke and only obtained it on the back of TA.

    End of the day no invoker player is going to say invoker is OP, likewise i wouldnt say Ursa who i have a 90% winrate was op. Yet his ult was nerfed to change his built to a less successful one, while TA has mostly remained untouched despite its utter domination in high rank games.