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Social Justice Debates

Discussion in 'World News & Debate' started by Blarrg, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    I was going to go into the archives to copy/paste some points brought up before Reborn, but it seems the archive was taken a week or two before hand so we lost a few.

    Discuss anything related to Social Justice here.
     
  2. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator Staff Member

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    There might be some archive transferring in the future with old threads carrying over. We'll see.
     
  3. Lithary

    Lithary Member

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    That would be good.
    I feel naked!
     
  4. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Member

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    Let's not do that. Let's leave all that crap in the Internet limbo and try to create an actual respectful debate forum without being reminded how terrible we behaved before. You know what they say, new phone, new life. :cat:

    OT: The next debate is tomorrow. Not really looking forward to it, but I set aside the evening to watch it.
     
  5. RaidenStorms

    RaidenStorms Member

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    Social Justice? I have nothing against it, it's that a lot of activists tend to act stupid and illogical. I tend to avoid talking to people that are intoxicated by self-righteousness and have no qualms with censoring speech they dislike, they actively seek to ban opposing views by labeling them as “hate speech” but I must say that the biggest issue I had with social justice folks is how they tend to dismiss everyone by saying things are just a "social construct". Like, you can't just disregard something that exists, like biological reality of sex, as a social construct.
     
  6. Overpowerade

    Overpowerade Member

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    I never get morals and may never will.
     
  7. MrFrank

    MrFrank Member

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    OT: Just waiting for the old debate to be ported here first.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2016
  8. Z01d

    Z01d Member

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    Please no.
    Old WN&D was literal cancer and mental incest. The same few people having the same argument over and over was just sad.
    The new ignore function helps a lot but it also seems like the most notorious people are not as active anymore.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2016
  9. Wonkdonkler

    Wonkdonkler Moderator Staff Member

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    Could you elaborate a bit? You can't rationalize moral behavior aka common sense? Or you fail to see a difference between what's considered rational and what's considered common sense?
     
  10. Marazhu

    Marazhu Member

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    Anita Sarkeesian takes on the injustice of Dota 2
    :V
     
  11. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    I think Anita has been classified by most people as a complete joke at this point. All she did really was complain that the lives of a video game woman are horrible and that random background women (who cares about the men lul) don't get character development.
     
  12. Bernoully

    Bernoully Member

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    Being just and fair in distributing wealth, opportunity and privileges sounds noble and right, but Western social justice focuses on the wrong things. As I see it now, its rules are completely subjective and based on emotional reaction to limited perspectives.

    Here's what I see...

    Social justice turns people into whiners instead of problem solvers.

    Social justice tells you to call something hate speech just because you cannot imagine someone else agreeing to ideas completely opposite of yours.

    Social justice tells you to feel angry that things are unjust when you can go ahead and invent some new product or service to help people afflicted by this injustice.

    Social justice tells you to put people into labeled boxes instead of seeing that everyone has some talent or skill inside them that needs nurturing regardless of skin colour and social standing.

    Social justice tells you it's okay to be an eternal failure and join some scorned -ism club that doesn't provide anything useful to society.

    Social justice tells you that rich people should babysit the whole society instead of you becoming a rich person and help people you actually care.

    Worst of all, social justice is mostly blind when it comes to feminism for females in countries like Saudi Arabia, poverty in countries like Myanmar, slavery in modern African countries and criminal justice system in Japan where people are guilty until proven innocent. They only care about the tiny injustices in the West compared to places in the world where social justice is actually needed.

    You can debate the different preferences in political systems, gender rights and economic distribution, but since we're on the internet it's all going to devolved into ad hominem attacks and circular reasoning.

    Have fun!
     
  13. xpforever

    xpforever Member

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    Nobody should take that moron seriously since on top of the fact that she's a borderline con artist, she'll literally complain about polar opposite things (e.g. complain about female characters being feminine yet also complaining about them not being feminine enough).

    With regards to gender issues as a whole, modern "feminism" ignores several facts, such as:
    1. Most women do not identify as feminists, probably because they don't think it has their best interests at heart.
    2. There are plenty of careers that are female-dominated in terms of % employment, as well as some where women are paid more. You don't see men complaining about those.
    3. Telling women that they're being oppressed and that certain career paths will pit them against rampant discrimination ironically can have the effect of simply discouraging them from those career paths.
    4. Yelling "sexist" left and right drowns out legitimate complaints of actual sexism. Same thing with "rape" and other x-isms.
    5. Women are getting more college degrees than men right now in the US. If they aren't choosing the right degrees, that's not our problem.

    With regards to race:
    1. The left as a whole keeps people, especially minorities, tied to the welfare state. This furthers their poverty by destroying their self-sufficiency as well as incentives (on top of ensuring votes for the left by getting them essentially addicted).
    2. The worst of #1 is utterly destroying the black family by allowing women to effectively marry the state. This has disastrous consequences (even ignoring the usual dysgenic effects of welfare states).
    3. BLM is a shitshow. "All lives matter" is too, since it's the completely wrong retort. The reason BLM is wrong is because the premise is wrong. There isn't some completely disproportionate rate of black people doing nothing wrong getting shot by cops. Rather, every case seems to be the same thing:
    i. Guy gets shot by cops, details unclear (media reports this)
    ii. Witnesses say he didn't pose a threat to the cops (media also reports this)
    iii. Actual facts and evidence come out which prove that the cops were not in the wrong (media conveniently ignores this)
    Remember the "hands up, don't shoot" guy? Well, turns out that no, he did not have his hands up, and he did pose a potential threat to the cops. But the media had already moved on to the next bit of hysteria by the time the facts came out.
    4. Yes, poverty causes crime to some degree. But different people will have different propensities to commit crimes as a way out of poverty, not to mention it doesn't justify it in the least bit. On top of that, crime causes poverty to a far greater degree than poverty causes crime, because businesses are actively repelled (remember those riots? They destroyed their own homes and businesses, not the people they were supposedly fighting against). No businesses means no jobs, not to mention anyone who does manage to make it will get out of the high-crime area ASAP.
    5. If you don't think the left just views them as easy votes, go see which party referred to Latino voters as "taco bowls". Hint: it wasn't Repubs.

    Immigration:
    1. I would have exactly zero issue with extremely liberal immigration, if and only if there were no/minimal welfare state, and people were restricted from voting for some time (hey, maybe we could make them wait exactly as long as people born in the country have to wait, i.e. 18 years) in order to prevent certain political parties (*cough*) from importing votes rather than earning them.
    2. People are complaining that low-skill labor is not paid enough, so they push for measures that merely cover up the problem like higher minimum wages. If you let more low-skill labor immigrate in, it pushes the market value of low-skill labor even lower, making the problem worse. Since this disproportionately affects certain minorities, remember that when you determine which party is """"racist"""".
    3. Not quite immigration, but international free trade has similar effects, where it benefits middle and upper classes in the richer country while harming their lower class due to mostly taking their jobs. It's not a question of free trade vs tariffs, it's a question of tariffs vs welfare.
    4. Illegal immigration compounds the problem. Since you don't have to pay attention to laws like minimum wage with illegal labor, but you do with legal labor, in many cases it's literally impossible for the legal labor to compete, because even if they are willing to work for such a low wage, the employer can't legally do it.
     
    Eli_Green likes this.
  14. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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  15. lovestep

    lovestep Member

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    Personally I can't believe there are people dumb enough to push the pay gap idea. Anyone even bringing this subject into debate needs to be stripped of his human rights and sent to live in the jungle.
     
  16. Dr zombono

    Dr zombono Member

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    Paygab do happen to both m and f sowhy not make it equalto both gender?
     
  17. lovestep

    lovestep Member

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    Because not both genders are equally qualified to carry out the same jobs. Women are more proficient in some just as men are more proficient in others.
    Equal rights does not imply equal expectations and capabilities.

    Why do male models not make anywhere near what a female model makes?
     
  18. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator Staff Member

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    What lovestep said, plus the fact that the pay gap is a very fatuous term in of itself as it implies discrimination when there's only dissonance in the particulars. Whatever field you choose, there's always some factors that come into play that create this "gap", but it's really not an effect.

    People in better businesses, in a market with more demands for their services, with superior qualifications and experience, working more hours and being more competitive. All these add up and create gaps that appear in between people more so than in between genders. Why talk about a "pay gap" between men and women when these 2 categories are too broad to make a point in a relevant manner?

    The entire sentiment of it is initiated with predisposition to sexism which in turn just causes confirmation bias.
     
  19. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Member

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    How well people do their jobs depends on personal skill level and not on gender. In other words, a person of any gender can be just as qualified to carry out the same job, as other people. Same can be said about other personal characteristics, like race, sexual orientation, etc.
     
  20. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    I thought SJWs concern more about putting women and trans into niche areas like military more than the pay gap?

    It is hilarious that SJWs are labeling any opposite opinion as "hate speech" when "hate speech" and "political correctness" stem from the same origin.

    Concerning pay gap, this is a good watch:

     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016