Discussion in 'Meta-Game Discussion' started by Xokk, Dec 23, 2016.
Haven't played in like a year or two. Thanks in advance.
Jugg, Naix, Alch, Naga, Luna, TB
I don't think those are actually good. Specially Luna feels very nerfed because of the changes to HotD and the fact that it doesn't lifesteal anymore, so she takes quite a while (longer than she used to) to come online while being still very vulnerable to ganks till she builds Shadow Blade or something.
Alch probably still works, but mainly because he can outlane most heroes with Acid Cloud spam more than anything else.
I would say actually the likes of LC (still really good as she can jungle just about anywhere) or Slark.
most of my carry wins are still stemming from my Shadow Blade/Silver Edge LC as I only had to make a few adjustments for her build and that was basically to swap my initial ward for another TP scroll and the elimination of HotD from my core build for obvious reasons and that's it. In the 6.xx era, I started off with QB, Stout, Salve, TP & a ward which I planted somewhere near the rune next to my jungle side's to prevent ganks on me while I was jungling. Now, I just TP to both jungle shrines back and forth as the neutrals take longer to respawn but there are more camps in the secondary jungles along with bounty rune spots.
I keep trying other carries too, but the likes of Drow, Viper, Sniper, etc seem not very viable without some heavy supporting. The map just feels bigger with the expanded secondary jungles and the enemy ganks can basically come from anywhere (anyone can teleport to their jungle shrines so it doesn't matter much if the tier 1 towers fall) and warding in turn has become much more difficult. In the previous era, you had a warding war (supports warding and dewarding the enemy supports) along with the general war between the teams with ganks & teamfights. I might be mistaken, or still in the way to adapting to this new era but at the moment everything seems to just be random. I've had games lost even though my support was warding heavily, and games won with little to no warding. Mobility and carrying at least TWO TP scrolls for me seems more important than ever now. So, things like, invisible carries (Slark is also one of these, don't forget), Mirana, AM, the old SB + Naix wombo combo, Nature's Profit, or Night Stalker & Bloodseeker to a lesser degree etc. seem to be more annoying than ever before, in pubs at least.
For LC, I just jungle anywhere rushing Shadow Blade and once I've farmed it I start looking for kills, and that's it. She is unlike other junglers that must start off from the easy camp or easiest mid camps (Lycan), and/or require summons to do the job (meaning mana is a problem for them) or some others such as Ursa or Troll Warlord who must rush a Morbid Mask (more expensive than before) in order to recover some health. Not only she does jungle anywhere (except the ancient camps of course), she still comes online earlier than most other hard carries, and that's definitely an advantage. You have 4 jungles now, so you can literally jungle anywhere without worrying that much about ganks even though coherent warding has almost vanished.
It's situational, I would recommend you SF now as one safer carry due his current buffs, you can naturally gain a real high damage as time passes due his necromastery buff up level 20 which increments his Aganim performance(144 damage without Aganim, 184 damage with Aganim), Juggernaut, OD, Alchemist, TW, PA, Void, Naga.
Luna still remains strong, casual Morbid is fine. Manta is especially good on her in fights since raw AS carries over now to illusions.
About Troll hmmm. Morbid and HOTD maybe? HOTD does give him some bulk and some nice regen. Maybe Lance HOTD?
OD is still strong.
Morbid Mask alone is still good, but it doesn't have an expansion allowing Luna or whatever carry you're using it on to dominate neutrals anymore. You can still build the current form of HotD but of course will take an extra slot and additional gold for that and I just don't see the point of it.
remember that everyone used to go HotD on Sven or Luna etc. to dominate a creep (most likely alpha wolf or frost ogre) and start stacking ancients to flashfarm. This is now much harder and takes more gold/slots than before.
PL agha is legit btw. Feels like Potm agha rush. It'll speed up your farming.
yeah, Mirana is basically an invisible Morphling now, Morphling also seems good, but I don't think illusion carries are all that good. CK being the exception mainly because he has a solid, reliable disable and a blink-like ability to jump on targets and he is tankier than the others. everyone else dies easily to Battlefury, Mjolnir, or general AOE spam.
naga is actually meh-tier 3 carry now, the meta , especially of pubs is really shit for her and other nerfs hurt her a lot as well. Just my opinion
PL is decent, in situation tho where you dont need to get a manta, Morph is still decent, Luna, Juggernaut, Naix, Terrorblyat, Drow, WEAVER (soooo strong), Slark.
cant think of many others that can safe lane. Mid lane theirs a bunch and even QoP is retarded late game now
You never get Manta on PL now, you just rush Aghs. BoT Aghs Diffusal Skadi Bthorn
most invisible carries: Weaver, Riki, Slark. they're all annoying because it's even harder to cover the map with sentries than before, and their more obvious counterpicks are far and few between (Beastmaster, Bloodseeker, BH, Slardar etc). not really sure if I could add Broodmomma to the list.
BH & Nyx even tho they aren't carries either.
Naix is also pretty annoying too if paired with any of the above.
I don't consider Mirana as a true carry but she's definitely up there, she can snowball extremely hard, if given enough momentum can carry by herself, and getting said momentum isn't all that hard with her. Agha's lets her farm pretty fast and double her magic damage in teamfights (and her nuke has ridiculously big AOE to boot). She's much much scarier than the likes of QoP imho.
LC (still extremely popular in pubs)
Mobile carries like AM, Morph, possibly Ember/Storm (?).
PA seems so-so, but far more viable than the standard ranged carries like Drow/Sniper, partly because she can counter them decently.
PL item route seems to be just getting that fast BoT>Aghs so your inventory looks something like BoT Aghs QB Aquila Raindrops and you just clear creeps.
Lycan is rediculously strong this patch even after the nerf he got in 7.01.
Luna is still one of the stronger carries even after the 7.0 nerfs.
Sniper is also doing rather well this patch.
Which skill do you start with for LC woods? Still the old armlet-bkb-blademail build?
How do you guys build Slark nowadays? Silver Edge -> Skadi? Is it worth to get that Echo Sabre item?
I prefer to start with PtA because that one seems to be the best choice at 1 - heals regardless of you attacking a target or not, provides more attack speed at 1, and dispels most nasty things which is better than MoC in case you get ganked... the next 2 points are still going to MoC though.
I don't do Armlet build. I rush Shadow Blade as my first item (yes even before boots) as I explained. Armlet imho goes well with a Blink Dagger but as both items together are far more expensive than a single Shadow Blade, a LC going for those takes longer to come online and start killing. Shadow Blade LC is still the quickest LC way to come out of the jungle and start killing and collecting Duel damage and stuff.
Echo Sabre is still somewhere within Slark's core. He needs some mana regen, this item provides it nicely, so.
Mask of Madness is severely underrated. Especially on heroes like Luna. That armor loss and silence is not noticeable when clearing creeps and in fights you just activate it after you've cast. Her build for me looks like treads/MoM/Aghs/Manta/Butter and the BKB is only needed after serious thought against disables since this is more of a damage meta than a disable meta. Only 1 loss with Luna this entire patch.
you don't need Mask of Madness to clear creeps and you can't use your nukes while silenced.
it's just bad on her.
you start eclipse and run in at 500ms with MoM
the MoM change is kinda retarded... its a huge buff for right-clickers vs magic-based nukers
Eclipse is not the only active ability she has. She relies on Lucent Beam spam just as much if not more when Eclipse is cooling down.
honestly id like to know who came up with this retarded MoM change now... this item seems like autowin vs any team with fewer right-clicker carries -- if you're a rightclicker hero and their physical isnt much of a threat just go MoM and you get a massive AS and MS bonus for literally no drawbacks
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