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Sid Meier's Civ VI

Discussion in 'Video Games' started by Greaves, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator Staff Member

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    The only thing very little is your understanding of history.

    First of all, leaders =/= civs. Cleopatra is a Greek leading Egypt, Catherine de Medici an Italian leading France etc. In that way, many civs are multicultural. Only a racist would think of ancient Rome as "white", especially since the Romans didn't view the world that way.

    Second, there are more civs than that in the game, your numbers are wrong.


    Don't ever tell that to a historian. Primarily for his own sanity, but also because you'll get laughed at for you naivety.


    http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/largest-empire-by-percentage-of-world-population/

    Better luck next time.


    [​IMG]


    Not in Egypt. Egypt ruled over the area of Israel during the Middle and New Kingdoms, that doesn't mean Jews were forced into Egypt.

    [​IMG]


     
  2. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Member

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    Enlighten me.

    The Romans didn't, but 21st century Americans do. Hint: the game is developed and published in this country.

    Also, we are all racist. At least in the US.

    I was not including DLC.

    Who cares?

    > Guinness World Records

    [​IMG]

    So how did Guinness World Records identify the size of the Achaemenid Empire? They relied on the data from Achaemenid Empire Census Bureau? :cat:

    Sorry, but the reason I asked for "proof" was because there is none. It is impossible to determine how many people lived a couple thousand years ago. It just is.

    Again, this isn't the point. The point is that "social justice" stories existed even several thousand years ago.
     
  3. Wonkdonkler

    Wonkdonkler Moderator Staff Member

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    1. Identify an area of human activity
    2. Note a distribution of success
    3. Identify winners and losers
    4. Claim that the losers are losing only because they are being oppressed by the winners
    5. Claim allegiance with the losers
    6. Feel secure in your comprehensive explanation of the world
    7. Revel in your moral superiority
    8. Target your resentment towards your newly discovered enemies
    9. Repeat. Forever. Everywhere.
     
    Jon likes this.
  4. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator Staff Member

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    -The Greek kingdoms of India and their impact on local culture (e.g. Greco-Buddhism)
    -The building of the great library of Alexandria
    -The Hellenistic era's cultural and scientific boom
    -The establishment of Koine Greek as the lingua franca of (parts of) the region for the next roughly 1000 yearsthe first
    -The translation of Torah (Septuagint)
    -The cultural spread of later Persian/Akkadian culture into Europe


    You maybe, not all Americans.

    Then this whole ramble of yours is bollocks because Macedon is part of a DLC. Case closed.


    You don't care if you are perceived as ignorant of one's work? Bold. Not very smart, but bold.


    First of all, GWR doesn't identify anything, they take facts from other sources.Being verified on GWR means that the most modern estimates and therefore more accurate ones are the ones listed.

    Second, there are various methods in determining size of ancient populations. Your ignorance of these methods doesn't make it a sheer guess.

    Granted, there is a large margin of error, but that's why I listed a more realistic figure in my initial post which would make sense given that Egypt and Mesopotamia were among the first areas worldwide with extensive permanent settlement.

    So you asked something without being genuinely interested in an answer that you might not be aware of which shows your inherent bias and sheer inability to form an educated opinion from sources you might disagree with?

    As if historians and anthropologists didn't have a good enough reason to scoff at you already.

    Too bored to post the Twister picture again.
     
  5. Rubz

    Rubz Member

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    Atleast Alexander could possibly have been bisexual so that must be a win for social justice. And Shaka Zulu representing black Africans in the genocide game. Don't forget good old Genghis Khan showing Asia got the best killing spree. We just need a Slavic-Latino transexual empire popping up somewhere so we can include everyone in a video game.

    Or perhaps Africa should get a Dota2 Major or better yet an direct invite,because you know its not fair that Africa is not being represented, despite us not having any teams who stand a rats arse's chance against the weakest of International teams.
     
    Eli_Green likes this.
  6. Nezekan

    Nezekan Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm pretty sure they were dark skinned people in Persia, as there still are in Iran. And I don't think there is single stance of discrimination against them on basis of skin color. Also they saved Jews three times and freed slaves because Zoroastrianism was absolutely against slavery. Its pretty much the social justice nation the game "needed".
     
  7. Ostarion

    Ostarion Member

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  8. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator Staff Member

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    Oy there.

    I was thinking about hosting an Outback Tycoon/standard multiplayer match in the next few days. Any PD bro who is interested? If you are worried you suck, don't worry, I'll probably be worse :cat:
     
  9. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Member

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    Alex is very strong, actually. So is Persia... I was able to pick up a game on Immortal after not playing for months, and with some archers and Persian immortals killed everyone on my continent. I did not build a single city, but conquered about 13 and cruised my way to victory pretty easily. Then I played a game on Immortal, and killing 2 neighbors with some archers into swordsmen and crossbowmen was also fairly easy. Haven't attempted Deity because the game still confuses the fuck out of me, and half the time I don't understand what's going on with these graphics. Besides, my old Civ 5 habits of building everything in every city and playing "tall" die hard.

    What I can say is that Australia is pretty OP, and suggestively in the same tier as Poland in Civ 5. And just like in Civ 5's Petra+DF were super OP, there is the new Petra+Uluru+outback station level of OP in Civ 6. Even without Uluru Petra+outback stations would be ridiculous, tbh.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Member

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    Gorgo is my new fave. Getting culture from kills means you will plow through your early game policies at the speed of lightning, given all the barbarians and civs declaring war on you at higher difficulties. It becomes less significant later on, unless you are going for domination, in which case you will be ahead of everyone in civics. The acropolis is also pretty damn good with +2 culture right off the bat and half the cost, but Pericles gets that, too.

    Also, Germany is probably the best peaceful building civ, and I just got my first Deity win with them. Hansa is great, and one extra district makes things much easier. The rest of the civ is junk, tho.

    I still think Russia has the best UA with extra territory. It saves so much money and boosts early game so much. Besides, you almost always spawn next to tundra, and the extra production is nice, especially for hills or something like Spices on tundra. Lavra is very good, too, and I think that perhaps there can be a Theocracy domination strategy with Russia, buying cossacks with faith and killing everyone.
     
  11. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    If peaceful building civ, why don't you get Japan? Japan is great to make a cluster of cities together, and Japan has three districts with halved cost unlike other civs that only have their special district at halved cost. A cluster of cities also allows better defense and anti-espionage. Electronic Factory also yields a ton of hammers and iirc it also stacks.

    Russia is great, even more if you can get the +1 faith Tundra adjacency bonus pantheon. I once got one Holy Site in the middle of Tundra wood, and it is just awesome. Later on you can pump out in Tundra areas more trees for lumber mill or even make a national park (if you can get Eiffel Tower fast, damn fast). One national park can make you forget about amenities for a while, boosting production and growth.
     
  12. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator Staff Member

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    A dedicated Pericles player is impossible to be out-cultured as the late game commences, 5% bonus per city state of which you are the suzerain scales like crazy. That's why Pericles is the civics guy to be ahead of them all and go for culture victory, Gorgo is more flexible because early game civics are more well-rounded and can actually help with domination/science in the long run.

    The acropolis is mediocre because of the building restriction and relative weakness of the theater district. Theater districts are always coming behind commercial hubs, harbors, industrial hubs and campuses, even when it's half the cost. As for the building restriction, hills are among the most valuable tiles in the game and can often be absent from many areas. This means that every time you want to build an acropolis you have to assess whether you even can or if you do, whether it's worth it.

    What sells both Gorgo and Pericles is the extra wildcard policy slot. Nothing else that Greece offers comes even remotely close to that in how good it is. I think I've told you this before, but if you decide to grow tall as Greece, you will be gunning down extra policy wonders (plus the great merchant that gives one as well) and amass a 13-14 policy card government which basically outdoes everyone and everything in the late game.

    Was. The industrial hub general nerfs with the aoe effects along with the unique district limit change kind of killed Germany. They probably dropped 1-2 tiers because of that. The hansa is still good and extra district from the get-go helps, but they will be late to pay off.

    Aztecs are fantastic at completing districts and Australia can grow really tall. And unlike Germany, in (inevitable) defensive war they can actually give you a massive beating due to the production boost.

    Extra military policy card slot is pretty good. Probably the weakest of the extra policy card slot options, but it comes in handy, especially in governments like classical republic, merchant republic and democracy.

    I don't know about that. Maybe second or third best, but not the best. Scythia's ability with double light cavalry is phenomenal, Macedon's free eurekas by just being aggressive is also fantastic and so on. And if you want to grow tall, Persia's ability is arguably better early game than Russia's simply because trade routes are always 100% efficient while owned tiles need population, amenities and food to be maintained.

    There's isn't much going on for Russia in terms of their religion game aside from lavra being affordable and a tad bit more potent. You can technically do similar theocracy strats with any other civ with a significant faith bonus like Jadwiga's Poland or Ghandi's India.

    What's making lavra in generally mediocre however is the fact religion in Civ 6 is underpowered. 99% of my games I skip the monarchy and theocracy civics altogether because merchant republic is just objectively better at just about everything except religious victory.

    Japan's 3 reduced cost districts are the weakest in the game that you will never prioritize over commercial hubs, industrial hubs, harbors or campuses. I mean it's great to have those reduced and all, but no one who is going for a growing tall strat is prioritizing those 3 districts before the other ones or crucial wonders.

    I'm fairly certain that also almost all buildings were affected by the change in aoe effects in the winter patch and no longer stack.
     
  13. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Member

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    The three districts Japan gets at half cost are holy site, encampment, and theater square. All of these have low priority in any game past Emperor/Immortal. It's commercial hub > industrial zone/campus in terms of importance, and, frankly, you don't need campus even for domination victories, unless you are actually starved on resources lie niter or oil. Holy site is only essential for religious victory, and theater square won't even be built first in culture games. Though I do sometimes rush acropolis because it's so cheap, and the bonus is so easily accessible.

    Germany's power is not even in the Hansa, as much as it is in the extra district. Even cities with no fresh water access can grow to population 4, which means you can already have 3 districts. Otherwise, getting to population 7 can be tricky without policy cards, aqueducts (which aren't even that good and make take good tiles), granaries, and other stuff, so other civs will be stuck at 2 districts max. Ironically, it's usually those no river-all hills areas which yield most production but allow for little growth because you can't farm hills until much later in the game, at which point you will already have neighborhoods for housing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017 at 10:42 PM
  14. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    Theatre Square is actually a solid district since it gives culture, which ties with civic development and border expansion. And you get Encampment at halved cost, not Campus, thus you can quickly opt for domination as well.

    Even if you don't get these three districts a cluster of Industrial Zones and Commercial Hubs can pump out a lot of hammers and gold thanks to double adjacency bonus. Electronic Factory, despite coming at quite late, grants a ton of hammers on top of granting hammers to nearby City Centers. IIRC multiple Electronic Factories stack, which is even greater.

    If I go for peaceful build I still get at least two more cities before turn 50, which allows very decent cluster of Industrial Zones later on.
     
  15. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator Staff Member

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    No district is bad, they just have a priority queue. Japan will never have a substantial building edge because they don't have an advantage in districts that matter the most. Also, encampments aren't terribly efficient for domination compared to flat hammers or gold. You want to be pumping out units, but also building everything faster as well which the encampments buildings don't do much about.

    The obvious exception is when you have Carthage in your game which is one of the most powerful city states in the game. If you become their suzerain, you get a trade route for every encampment district you have. Basically, everything that gives you a trade route in Civ 6 is of the highest priority.

    Adjacency bonuses aren't game-changers, but I can see how it might come in handy for Japan when they use weaker tiles to build districts on instead of higher quality ones for the bonus. For example, you can save valuable tiles next to mountains for the campus by getting a roughly similar bonus next to your other districts.

    As I've said above: https://civilization.com/news/entries/civilization-vi-winter-2016-update-now-live

     
  16. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    >tfw I'm the guy who rarely read patch notes.

    I know that it is not game-changer but Japan's ability gives them more leisure to build their city. A cluster of districts is also easier to defend against enemy spies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017 at 8:43 AM
  17. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Member

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    I meant encampment, not campus. Mistake.

    Anyway, encampment isn't even necessary for domination. You really just need production to make units or gold to buy them. Like I said, the only times encampment is justified is when you have only 1 copy of a resource and can't get more, but really, you barely need even that. Consider this: you can upgrade units with only 1 copy of a strategic resource, which means that all you have to do is pre-build several units of the same type, like heavy chariot, possibly delay Stirrups, and once the tech is researched, you pick the 50% upgrade discount card and upgrade them. That saves hammers and resources, but you need gold to do that. Similarly, you can pre-build many warriors and turn them into swordsmen with just 1 copy of iron, then into musketmen (or whatever those are) with just 1 niter, etc. And when you are going for domination from the start, you will most likely have all the needed resources by the mid-game anyway. So again, encampment is hardly that useful.

    It could be good defensively*, but Civ 6 is so heavily oriented towards expansion and conquest, and the AI is so bad at unit manipulation that I still don't see a case for this district.

    *And on Deity, you usually get rushed very early on, so the encampment won't even be available. I played a game where Trajan arrived with his leagions at my doorsteps at t40, and there is no way you can fight legions so early. Or this guy plays Russia, and he gets DoW'ed by Trajan at turn 19. He literally has to spam units, and because AI is shit at combat, he actually repels the attack.

     
  18. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator Staff Member

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    So I decided to make a personal tier list for the civs in the game (for single player):

    [​IMG]
     
  19. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    Just tried Australia. Australia is pretty strong, just by contesting desert tiles for a ton of Outback Stations. Having Petra makes thing so easy. Playing Australia in high difficulty against warmongers is also great with that OP hammer boost.

    However Guild comes a bit late to get some Outback Stations.

    You can actually go full offensive with Australia if you try to liberate cities. However it is quite hard to know which city to liberate. I have to google city names for this. Btw using Australia to war against Scythia is outright a nightmare. Fighting against a bunch of Cavalries is real hell.