Discussion in 'Competitive' started by Freezytius, Oct 8, 2016.
I won't say winning 3 majors is nothing.
You're right, perhaps I was too "informative" with my wording, I should have said N0tail is holding the team back.
I think he is the weakest member, but that doesn't mean he is bad. S4 is showing some real promise in his new role in terms of becoming on of the really good offlaners and Fly and Jerax are a really good support pairing. And Ana is improving more and more with experience. So being the weakest among those 4 doesn't mean you are a bad player.
But he has shown some real good decision making, like that game at Boston when he played Luna. I don't know if he just tilts sometimes or what it is.
notail is not the worst member now... rofl.
You can argue hes holding them back, but he actually improved as a carry. I prefer more 'traditional' carries with great mechanical skill, and thats way I like to try and emulate. But thats not even that relevant anymore tbh. especially this patch.
NoTail is a decent carry at the least now even if u look at mechanics. He improved as u do naturally over a year.
Ana was mediocre.
Either way I dont think OG wil do any worse this patch.. THis patch really suits them because dota is all about working as team and winning.
Individual performances Dont matter THAT much from the looks of it but time will tell (which I mean is 1v9 games are rare. and Og never won them since miracle left anywy)
How do we beat OG?
What's their weakness? There's got to be something we can use...
Just watched them played versus Alliance.
Their early game is lacking compared to some other teams, their hero picks and lanes are aimed for the middle game advantage and very little late-game potential if they doesn't snowball a lot.
They also get a lot of openings, as going as 4 man for a kill, when their Invoker was free-farming middle, assisting with Sun Strike while grabbing additional last hits and pushing towers early in the game.
Alliance draft also lack in physical damage in their game 2, while having no real disables ... they were focused on magical damage burst with only very few lock-downs and their formation crumble very fast if they didn't followup their disable.
OG also had a lot of times heroes in vulnarable positions, which were able to escape because their adversaries lack pick-off potential (didn't saw how they play against that, can somebody suggest a game to watch where their enemies had heroes able to kill enemies at the early stages of the middle game on their own), and they actually react pretty well when more than 1 hero was outside of their vision (2 heroes missing - expect a kill attempt - everybody hide).
So some team has to try:
1) pressure them harder in the early game;
2) try some 4-1 type of strategy with some mobile hero who can split-push fast and hard, while being able to be back in a fight if needed. Ember is actually very bad at pushing, while he is hard to kill and able to transport himself back fast.
3) have someone who is able to make pick-offs
Fly is perfectly timing these big bang, big time ultimates... Jesus. He's supposed to be just the bread and butter, is he not?
During a fight he's doing his supportive job, he's distributing his ccs, nothing fancy, true, nothing like jerAx, ok, but at the same time, at the exact same time, he's positioning, and he's counting all variables that he must consider before poping those ults.
Every single game.
Damn... Every single time.
Right now, it feels like OG is simply outplaying every other team.
The way they handled Secret yesturday? Jesus.
The way they kill objectives consistantly, the way they control the pace, slowly controlling the match feels nearly magical, it feels like winning starts to fall in their laps as the game advances, they don't need to outdraft others to feel like their playing an assured victory, they don't need to wreck them up during laning phase, during mid game... the match may apparently be quite even, in terms of objectives, map control, networth, sometimes it even feels like they're the ones who got wrecked, but slowly... slowly they take the upper hand. Slowly, assuredly...
The past games that I watched, really got me amazed.
It feels like they know something the others don't. That we don't. It's amazing.
ana alchemist - WTF
Step 1: ban syren, its imba. They actualy did it in finals and semifinals to have a chance.
These guys look like TI3 Alliance right now. They have a few strategies they can dominate with, but their main advantage is that they seem to understand the way you play the game right now.
For example, they crush with illusion strats, but also win with timbersaw carry. You can ban out all their top heroes, but they'll still manage to beat you from a 15k gold deficit.
IMO VP's players were individually more skilled than OG's players. Mechanically I'd rate Ramzes over NoTail, LiL over Fly, and NoOne over Ana. I think Jerax is the most mechanically skilled of anyone though. But OG has much better strategic understanding, which I suspect comes from Fly and NoTail, who've been dominating together and apart since FNatic HoN days.
This is the most impressive aspect of the team to me. How many times did they have a meh or even bad laning stage but just managed to get control of the game. They just have this next level strategic and decisionmaking aspect to their game. Playing from a disadvantage and being able to get what you need and know what you can do even with that deficit and somehow taking over the game. That is so good.
Game 5 of the final was such a good example of this. VP had them countered with picks, had a huge advantage. I couldn't believe they where able to come back with how the game was. It is also a showcase of how good they are with communication and teamfights.
They definitely have very good players in each position (n0tail and ana have improved a lot) but they are not the most individually skilled team at all. They win by being the best at the rest of the game, and the strategic elements of Dota and how important that is has always been so cool to me.
Manila Masters 2017 - LAN Finals.
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