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LC loses Duel when both heroes die simultaneously?

Discussion in 'Advanced Mechanics' started by Leadblast, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    I did the following test in Demo mode:

    Level 25 LC (controlled by me) vs level 25 Axe (dummy). By arming LC with 6 Rapiers and Dueling the naked Axe a ton times, I got enough Duel damage to kill Axe in a single blow (so LC had about over 6k attack damage without items at this point).
    Then, I gave a Blademail to the Axe dummy, and activated it before making LC Duel him. Both heroes died simultaneously, however Axe always won the Duel in this case. Why is this?
     
  2. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    Chance is that Blade Mail's damage calculation is before LC's damage. It is rather weird, though, since LC should be the first to damage the other.
     
  3. Abdulink

    Abdulink Member

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    Can confirm it's as OP says, just ran a quick test.

    I think Blademail reflect deals damage first.
     
  4. DracoLich

    DracoLich Member

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    of course damage returns happens first, it's been like there since 2006
     
  5. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    Ah, silly me, I guess that's why. Had forgotten that.

    https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Blade_Mail
    • The returned damage is always dealt right after the incoming damage.

    Well I guess that's yet another way to defeat a well-fed LC...
     
  6. EebstertheGreat

    EebstertheGreat Forum Manager Staff Member

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    Yeah that article is wrong on that point. Triggered effects happen first. This comes from WC3, in which the JASS triggers interrupt execution to call a function. So everything in that function has to finish before it returns to whatever triggered it. In this case, damage is registered, triggering all the on-damage triggers in order of creation, including Blademail. Only after these have all resolved (including LC's resulting death) can the original damage instance finally resolve.
     
  7. Nisamraw

    Nisamraw Member

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    You can also witness that with Bloodseeker. I remember a game where a Lina used laguna on him, he had 100hp or something, but has blademail and 1st spell on. Lina died, while BS killed her, got healed, and got credited for the kill.
     
  8. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    Yes, Blademail damage is applied first. So Axe would always win in that regard. To you it looks as if they died simultaneously, but that is not how the mechanics work. Even the Ancients can't be destroyed simultaneously. The one will always perish before the other.