Discussion in 'Dota Chat' started by IHateLeavers, May 18, 2017 at 11:50 PM.
Srly, just set it with Void or Enigma and enjoy free ez kills.
The icepath is more cancer tbh.
The time you hit level 25 everyone pretty much have 5 sec BKBs anyway, and long range line reverse polarity is just broken.
If you want damage and you have the cc (as you said, void or Enigma) you should definitely consider taking Macropyre talent though.
A bit ridiculous for an already OP hero imo
the lvl25 icepath talent is downright one of the worst ever... 1.25s extra stun duration has shit impact compared to most other talents out there, the old -50 sec respawn talent (which btw with bloodstone was very good in lategame, especially for defending highground) was almost always better unless you were trolling - i actually think it needs an increase to 1.5s to be even remotely worthwhile
macropyre is also one of the worst ultimates there is - walk a few pixels away and you've just wasted >400 of his mana for no effect
the new talent is OK, but i dont see it being all that impactful outside of combos... then again its still better than the current icepath talent
He got picked in most of the matches after 7.06 and yes he is cancer.
Was level 25 Macropyre used in any of those matches?
Jakiro still has very big weaknesses, such as being completely ignorable once someone pops bkb. Now you have a tool against this... at level 25. Good luck getting there.
Also, if you get blackholed/chronoed like that lategame aren't you going to die anyway? CM, Witch Doctor, Warlock with his chains and even Distruptor with static storm can destroy your team at that point. Otherwise you can, you know, walk out of the fire..?
Pick rate increased by 1.3%. WOAW.
So, +1.25 second duration to long-range AoE stun with short CD is "worst ever" in late game? LOL! In late game BKBs last 5 seconds, and when they're already used up, that extra stun duration is extremely potent. Are you sure we play the same DoTA2?
Sure, old talent was much more powerful (because -50 sec respawn talent is beyond broken in DoTA).
Macropyre is bad ulti, true. Its main use in endgame is quick destroying of large creep packs, so making its damage pure wont change a lot (unless you combo it with BH/chrono/etc).
There are lots of TA mids right now.In my bracket people usually picks Jakiro against her.And guess what mid Jakiro isnt a just tower hitter now.He is not useless after the BKB s are popped.
by the time he gets to lvl25 its way into lategame, where most towers are down, including a few at highground as well - in general theres a lot of room to move around and its pretty hard to catch multiple enemies with a single icepath
while i dont disagree the extra 1.25s can be useful, my point is it simply doesnt match up to the level of most other lvl25 talents.... it certainly wasnt anywhere as good as the respawn talent
make it 1.5s and then we can talk
i never understood the logic in using macropyre on creepwaves - i think its an ultra retarded thing to do considering a dual breath + liq fire is sufficient to kill creeps.... if its megacreeps you simply wait another 10s for the next dual breath to finish them, theres absolutely no need to waste a >400 mana 60s cd spell on creepwaves
while macropyre is an awful ultimate, its still important for jakiro to land a good one in teamfights for him to stay relevant/impactful - and a lot of people fail to realise that fact, and falsely believe merely spamming icepath every 9s and throwing a very liquid fires gives him enough teamfight impact
macropyre desperately needs some kind of secondary effect, just laying down an easily dodgeable damage field simply doesnt cut it outside of combos
something like a 15-20% incoming damage reduction for allies standing on macropyre would add a much-needed, interesting dynamic to it without impacting its combo'ing with AOE disables - do you aim it to damage enemies, or buff yourself/allies? etc
keep talking out of our ass
mid jakiro is fucking awful because he cant farm for shit early on, he has huge mana problems and in general scales extremely poorly for a core unless he gets lucky with a very stellar start... he simply has more reliable impact at pos 4/5 than being a half-assed core
TA meanwhile can farm huge ancient stacks and even contest rosh early on, she doesnt have to sit at mid for too long and eat liquid fire harassment
I agree with you that as level 25 talent the +1.25 seconds sounds ridiculously low.
To clarify you why Macropyre is considered good on creep-wave by a lot of players, even if some don't know why.
Because it has a long duration and cast range, you can place it on a spot which prevent the enemy creep wave to remove the backdoor protection of your base.
So basically protect your base from high ground attempts for 30 seconds (basically until the next creep wave arrives).
With a cooldown of 60 seconds, that means you can clear every 2 waves out of 3, so your team have to clear the other 1 in-between.
In those cases he should not use his other spells due to range limitation or give the enemy time to chip away Tier 3 health.
About TA - I don't like Jakiro middle, he has a lot of weak spots overall to be considered valuable, but he can be played as support and he is still good at taking down TA's refraction instances.
He can also clear any kind of stacks rather well. I don't know why you point that as TA's advantage.
macropyre is worthwhile only if you hit enemy heroes along with the creeps - plain using it on creeps is a complete waste no matter how you look at it, and heavily compromises the hero's impact
also it costs way too much mana early on to be farming neutral stacks, he simply doesnt clear them efficiently or fast enough for a core.... its useful when hes support, but then again you're better off giving those stacks to a carry
I do agree about you thoughts on the stacks and already said that I don't really like Jakiro being core.
Just clarifying that he can clear them as well as TA, the damage is actually quite high, as the neutrals won't get away from it.
It's 1,000 damage on level 1 over 10 seconds, and that's a lot against neutrals.
About the wave clearing ability, did you ever have to be in a game where you cores are death and you have to delay the enemy push as much as you can, to prevent them being forced to buyback, or worse - they don't have the needed gold.
Well worry no more, clearing the creep-wave before lowering your backdoor protection will buy your team 30 seconds time without losing barracks meanwhile, and that's only Jakiro doing it.
Just to clarify, he can use it 2,000 range away which is enough to not expose himself and he unlike other heroes with similar abilities have a window for mistake, as it lasts 10 seconds and deal a lot more damage than needed to clear the wave.
Because nearly every third game I'm in situations like that - I don't think it's useless perk to have.
Also in fights it severely reduce the area in which non-spell-immune heroes might move, that in turn can gather them for another AoE spell.
You are fast to dismiss the viability of his spells.
if you want area denial, enigma does that way better with midnight pulse and with shorter cd
spending 440 mana on a purely 'dont stand here for more than 3 sec or you'll take a good bunch of damage' simply isnt good enough... infact in lategame most carries even shrug off that damage with lifesteal - try killing a PA who jumps on you/an ally and lifesteals like 1000hp off a crit, or slark who regens at 2034234923054823 hp per second, or troll with 9000+ attack speed perma bashing and lifestealing off someone
macropyre is situationally 'strong' when combo'd, but otherwise just an 'ok' spell - although overall considering the manacost/cd, its actually very underwhelming
i dont have a problem with it sucking in the damage department - i dont think jakiro is supposed to excel at damage anyway, but then the spell really needs some useful secondary effect so its not so 1-dimensional... eg incoming dmg reduction for allies, like i suggested above
such a buff wouldnt affect macropyre's current strengths (defending highground or killing disabled heroes), but would help in other situations where its currently underwhelming
if a kunkka player totally sucks and finds it difficult to land a ship (which is laughably easy to land these days), he can throw it on his allies for the rum buff... its this kind of flexibility that gives a hero some interesting 'play' potential, and its what we need more of on int support heroes
Uh... Jakiro is pretty strong atm, and BKB isn't mandatory purchase for all carries, so the Ice Path talent is pretty good.
Just stop maxing Liquid Fire early on. Going for Dual Breath is optimal for laning.
You are right, but isn't that the point ?
Any ultimate can be shrugged off if you are far ahead, every spell is situational. No spell is without counters and play-around things. Jakiro is not something different, he is just there if you need him.
Macropyre needs to apply independent DOT counters like Invoker's Chaos Meteor. Like 30/40/50 magic dps (pure with Aghs) for 3 seconds the first time you step in it and each second thereafter with fully independent instances of the DOT.
That's all it would take to make Macropyre a great ultimate. I can't understand why IceFrog doesn't see this. Macropyre has been the worst ultimate in the game for a long time. It's worse than any of Jakiro's base abilities.
don't reply to some posts too seriously my friend
If you think there is more than a snowballs chance in hell of Jakiro's garbage ultimate becoming "cancerous" (LMAO) then you sir are the troll.
P.S. Getting caught in Enigma's ultimate alone is plenty to worry about already regardless of Jaks trash ult on top of it.
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