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Is Doom really weak in 7.01, or is it just me?

Discussion in 'Meta-Game Discussion' started by ManOnTheCan, Dec 25, 2016.

  1. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    Yeah, so is this one of those "noob trap" heroes that isn't even supposed to be good, and just serves to help inflate the winrate of buffed heroes with arcanas?
     
  2. Bargh

    Bargh Member

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    Doom shit hero, unfortunately right now he doesn't do shit aside being walking creep with undispellable silence.
     
  3. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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  4. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    He just was overnerfed too much. Ability to lock spells and items through BKB is good, but hero shouldnt be a complete trash in all other aspects, even if he posesses such an ability. "One-skill wonder" hero design is quite bad in DoTA.
    Oh, and that damn 2.0 BAT was completely unjustified (since he already has one of the lowest dexterity). That change completely killed the possibility to go into semi-carry for Doom, and he became a support....
     
  5. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    Overnerfed too much. Sounds all too familiar to me.

    He's not even an one-trick pony now. Axe is far better at that.
     
  6. Dr_JP

    Dr_JP Member

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    In fact, his Talents make him a somewhat decent hero if we build him correctly (he's meant to be built around Infernal Blade in the end), with 1 point into Devour, maxed IB followed by SE with only level 1 Doom until all other skills are maxed.

    +8 int (lvl 10, mid game), +6 armor, +25 HP/sec regen (it scales by a fucking lot with SE and a lot of armor) and +2% Infernal Blade (makes him able to semi-carry decently) make his lategame not that trashy.

    Phase Boots/BoT + Lotus Orb + Dagger + Octarine Core + Assault/Shivas + Heaven's Halber (Evasion + Anti-Linken's).

    Gonna show that into my matches soon.
     
  7. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    Sorry, but his lategame is kinda trashy. The best he can do is to stack auras and support items for his team, get some mobility to land ultimate, ASU if he needs Break, and Refresher to place 2 ultimates. The question is - is he going to farm that much? 6-slotted lvl25 CM is also a "decent" hero, as well as literally every support hero in the game. It doesnt make them carries, because "carry" hero scales with items and levels much more than that! So how do you plan to farm so many slots on Doom? He doesnt have any farming skills but Devour, and it is too small GPM to afford all that.
    You want to spam IB in lategame? It isnt really strong when 6-slotted carries kill each other in 2-3 seconds...
    Doom was popular because of early advantage with IB. IB was never great in endgame, Doom & devour are his only real lategame skills. Until his BAT got nerfed to 2.0, Doom could go for decent tanky right-cliker build for midgame (in late, he was still inferior to lategame carries).
     
  8. F. E. A. R.

    F. E. A. R. Member

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    I forgot that this hero even exists. Played him a few times before 7.00, I immediately regretted my decision. I was a burden to my team. Doom is a shit hero. He recieved retarded nerfs. BAT from 1.7 to 2.0. Scorched Earth is a uselss spell and has a huge CD. Was nerfed twice in 6.85 and 6.86. His ulty got shit tons of nerfs. Not to mention the neutral creeps abilties are garbage. I don't even know if it's possible to lane this guy. And what's with his fucking Talent Tree? IceFrog gives Doom a Talent Tree to become a right clicker, but forgets that he increased his BAT to 2.0 in 6.86.
     
  9. Nisamraw

    Nisamraw Member

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    I randomed him by mistake, and couldn't repick him. I also forgot that this piece of trash existed. He's totally useless, weak on every lane, and can't even jungle decently. Because of that godly 2.0 BAT and splendid cast animation+cast range, you need to rely on the enemy to have god awful reflexes to actually use your ultimate.

    You can't punish any splitpusher that has dagger and more than 4k MMR if you don't have a Shadow Blade. Nowadays everyone has Dagger + Linken anyway, and can easily be saved by any support with Mek/Glimmer/Force Staff (which they have in every games since gold is so abundant thanks to APEM and GPM talents), not to mention simply denying him and wasting your ulti's CD. The dot damage is pitiful in the first place, 300 pur dmg in 15sec at level 6 ... yay.

    Building him full auras is the only way to go really, but the thing is, he's an inferior version of Underlord in that regard : way less utility, way more mana issues. Even Underlord brings more DPS to the table, and farms as fast, if not faster, than Doom.

    Because Doom, on average, farms slower than a fucking Viper. First of all, you can't max Devour because you'll be even more useless (if that was even possible in the first place). Secondly, you don't have the manapool to sustain it. And thirdly, because of the new talent system, even supports can be as farmed as a Doom when early late comes, and don't have to rely on a stupid base skill for income (on top of being totally passive & reliable).
     
  10. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    All that is true. Yes, Doom has a nice, unique ultimate. But that doesnt mean he should have 0 armour, awful agi+int, long cast animation and have his other skills gutted. Many other heroes also have great ultimates, along with decent stats and useful skills (Void, BM and so on).
     
  11. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    No buffs in 7.03 FeelsBadMan
     
  12. Oesile

    Oesile Member

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    Doom counters everything, so if we buff everyone else we buff Doom because he becomes more relevant /s
     
    terrorbringer and ManOnTheCan like this.
  13. BloodRampage-

    BloodRampage- Member

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    this hero needs no buffs until the day supports have viable right-click builds
     
  14. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    Shadow shaman just got +18 base damage buff. So unfair.
     
  15. IHateLeavers

    IHateLeavers Member

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    It was said many times already, not sure why people still bring it up. Doom became useless since:

    - they reduced cd on Linkens and made it castable on allies.
    - they added Lotus Orb.
    - they reworked lvldeath in to some shit that cannot pop linkens
    - Doom doesnt block buyback nor auto-attack so it's mostly useful against very specific heroes who didnt use their skills YET.
    - Jungle rework, transq boots rework made his jungle nearly useless and very slow.
    - Rubick can always steal your ulti and use it against your own team.
    - + many other nerfs like, longer cd on ulti and SE, removed bonus dmg from Aghs, buffs on other heroes, etc.

    Basically, nowadays meta is way too intensive for heroes with such a long CD and abilities which arent even that good anymore.
     
  16. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    All that isnt actually relevant.
    What IS really relevant:
    - BAT nerf to 2.0 (now the lowest in DoTA, and with one of the lowest AGI gains).
    - Doom cd/damage/manacost nerfs.
    - Infernal Blade lvl 1-3 damage nerfs.
    - Base armour nerf (to 0).
    - Scourched Earth CD, movespeed, manacost, etc nerfs.
    - Devour manacost nerf.
    - Purge slow nerf.

    Without those nerfs, Doom would have good early game and would be useful even without his ultimate. Not to mention, CD on his ulti was much lower before nerfs.
     
  17. Hyperion1O1

    Hyperion1O1 Member

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    Lvl Death's removal was actually really really huge for a couple of reasons:

    It was a targeted nuke that popped linkens
    The nuke was instant so you don't have to wait for the person to lose health over 4 seconds
    You can cast it at a respectable range
    Since it was an instant nuke at range, you didn't have to compromise your position

    Oh and the Devour plus BAT nerfs did kill a large part of the hero. The removal of Break was also a big deal, it made Doom a weaker pick against heroes he normally crushed.
     
  18. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    LvL Death wasnt instant. It has cast time, because Doom himself has quite long cast time. Rubick indeed could cast lvl Death instantly, because Rubick has 0 cast time himself. But not Doom.
    When Lvl Death was replaced by IB, Doom became better, actually. IB doesnt consume so much mana, and it was very powerful early (until it was nerfed). And it remained OK later, too.
    Break on Doom was probably too much (without ahganims i mean), but they shouldnt nerf its DPS and CD. Doom's DPS now is so small that it makes me laugh!
     
  19. Hyperion1O1

    Hyperion1O1 Member

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    No I don't mean instant cast time sorry about misunderstanding

    What i meant was instant base damage+bonus damage so its obviously better than IB, damage wise. It was just that Infernal gave Doom some flexibility due to it being very mana forgiving and allowed Doom to dominate a lane if given chance so you're not stuck maxing Devour Scorched before Infernal rework.

    Break on base Doom was maybe a bit much but I actually liked that mechanic on him, baseline wise.
     
  20. hubolah

    hubolah Member

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    TIL that scorched earth works on all units you own (both hp regen/movespeed). Not sure if intended, but it's fun to have summons with 85 hp regen and +16% movespeed.