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Is Doom really weak in 7.01, or is it just me?

Discussion in 'Meta-Game Discussion' started by ManOnTheCan, Dec 25, 2016.

  1. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    His winrate is very low (~43%), but there are quite a few strong heroes that have low winrates because people play them wrong. It just seems that there is nothing to justify picking doom as a hero.

    His skills are pretty weak. While devour used to be interesting, now like half of the heroes get +gold/min talents, and they don't even have to find a creep to eat to get gold.

    Is his ultimate strong enough to justify the >2min cool down? Heroes like Enigma are even getting cooldown reduction skills to lower the cd on their ultimate. Is Doom ultimate stronger than Blackhole?
    Last game I doomed a monkey king, and he turned around and got a double kill. Guess I should have bought an aghs.
     
    Abstract.Raze likes this.
  2. derd2323

    derd2323 Member

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    Infernal blade is pretty op tbh. Scorched earth should get a cd reduction imo, but that's it.
     
    Daddy Sven likes this.
  3. Hyperion1O1

    Hyperion1O1 Member

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    He can work. I'm a firm believer that you pick him against magic damage lineups and abuse the devour gold and his natural bulk to get a fast Hood and then you get whatever items you need after. I'd rather not pick him against physical damage like Drow or the like because its harder to mitigate physical on him ( in terms of negating their respective damage, casual Platemail vs Hood is no brainer, Hood wins out due to regen bonuses/ Also VG and Crimson got nerfed)

    If you want to go full negative armor to counter some stat whores, just go Elder Titan Doom and have Doom devour the Prowler Ancient for that -50% base armor reduction.
     
  4. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    So you guys max devour or what? I tend to max it second or last. I can't manage to have any early game impact if I max devour first.

    I don't think relying on a lvl 25 talent is viable. I played 10 doom games the last few days and only hit level 25 twice.
     
  5. BloodRampage-

    BloodRampage- Member

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    another hero who rapes magic lineups in 23402934 ways but dedicated rightclickers give no fucks about him

    either rework or dont touch
     
  6. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    How exactly does he rape magic line-ups? Instead of a long silence that doesn't do any damage, I'd rather take a decent stun that does some damage.
     
  7. BloodRampage-

    BloodRampage- Member

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    he doesnt 'rape' any kind of lineup at all right now - but my point is if you buff him, he turns into total cancer and owns magic lineups ultra hard, while still being only marginally effective vs physical lineups

    that discrepancy needs to be toned down first before any kind of buff is contemplated

    until then, hes best off being in the trashcan (which i dont think he is even now, but he doesnt deserve popularity buffs)
     
  8. AbyssPetra

    AbyssPetra Member

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    He's up there, not bad; not great either. It's just that people have been playing him the same way, not that there's a different way to play.

    Too easy to read. Anti-fun, just like people who gets BKB. It's no fun, but wins the game.
     
  9. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    Standard skill build seems to be qwwewr. Max w (Scorched Earth) first. Then Devour I guess. Rush Soul Ring then Phase Boots. Activate SR before using Scorched Earth and Devour right after that if possible. That way you'll be at pretty much full mana most of the time.

    I tried him shortly before the big 7.00 update. I found that he suffers from multiple problems:

    - atrocious BAT (2.0 - longest BAT in the game).
    - Doom (his ultimate I mean) has an unusually long cast time. You might be stunned before you actually Doom someone. Doesn't help that it has such short cast range.
    - the neutral creep spells are pretty weak... most of them anyway. For instance the centaur stun has ridiculously small AOE so you have to basically be at melee range to stun someone with it and also has more than twice the cd of most non-ult stuns. The big troll's ensnare has very short duration. The satyr purge has short cd and roots and obviously purges but has big manacost. Etc etc. Most of those seemingly nice useful abilities have some shortcoming that prevents him to use them to their full potential. Without them he is basically reduced to a walking ultimate. (considering Scorched Earth also has long cd and Infernal Blade requires melee range again) the main exceptions seem to be frost ogre armor, the easy camp ghost's chilling attack for a passive slow, and auras. Which are decent I guess but don't leave him much of a room for versatility.

    I don't get why he must have all these issues, it's as if all of these are there to prevent him from being really broken or something.
    Except than the likes of Mirana with her Agha's are far worse than him.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
  10. Kirijo-sama

    Kirijo-sama Member

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    I max blade for lul, and pretty much rekted every goddamn melee in early. but mid game arrive, everyone have ranged disable, and pretty much get kited
     
  11. Hyperion1O1

    Hyperion1O1 Member

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    Well, he kinda farms fast with Devour and Hood is a better EHP vs Magic when compared to Platemail vs Physical with similar costs (Hood is also built part for part). VG and Crimson also got nerfed % wise so he's not blocking that much physical damage.
    Also, take into account that if you survive the initial magic burst, spell reliant heroes turn nearly useless while they wait for CD while right click lineups dont rely that much on CD.

    Also, magic based lineups tend to suck in terms of right clicking and his ult Doom is a long silence that works very good vs spell reliant heroes. Meanwhile, rightclicking heroes who relies on passive rape him still even after being Doomed (unless Doom has Aghs for the Break)
     
  12. Daddy Sven

    Daddy Sven Moderator Staff Member

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    Agree here. Not too big though.

    The fact that he can eat Ancients at lv25 is pretty amazing though. They have some pretty powerful and useful abilities, most of which are auras.
     
  13. Hyperion1O1

    Hyperion1O1 Member

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    That cheap ass 90 Attackspeed from the Thunder Ancient lmao
     
  14. Anti-Xenophobe

    Anti-Xenophobe Member

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    The hero is really lacking at early-mid teamfights. Once his items come online he's actually useful, but level 1 ulti barely tickles and you can't even reliably get it off without a Blink (or you might be forced to Doom bad targets, like Kunkkas that have already used ulti, or Lifestealer that has already popped Rage and OW, etc), you don't actually have any nukes, and you're easily kited. That's not impossible to balance, but the hero needs big buffs in several departments. His rightclick is atrocious and the hero can't farm (instead of Devour giving him fast farm, it feels more like social welfare. If the hero didn't have Devour, he'd be broke all game), and 0 armor+below avg movespeed is bad on a hero that needs to run up to his targets to do anything at all
     
  15. stereox

    stereox Member

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    What about applying break on Doom instead of having to buy aghanim ?
    Because doomed target is condemned to be doomed.
     
  16. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    Well I just got flamed for not maxing devour and rushing midas in the offlane. Is that a viable build now?
     
  17. Hyperion1O1

    Hyperion1O1 Member

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    If the game is going slow, its better to max Devour. If you're forced to fight early, you just go Tranqs Wand Basi Raindrops with max W and E with a point in Devour.

    Doom is good for slow games where your team has the initiative for pick offs. Doom's not a good hero when counter initiating. Think about Doom being Floyd Mayweather; you pick the fights you want on your own terms.

    Also, better to start with Talon Salve offlane and clear the neuts and not having to worry about fuking up the stack since they respawn in like 1 min>3 mins>5 mins etc
     
  18. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    I just don't know how I'd do anything in the offlane or as a roamer if I max devour first, or if I get a midas.
     
  19. Hyperion1O1

    Hyperion1O1 Member

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    Just farm in the offlane. No need to kill people but you can go aggressive from time to time if you wanna abuse the shrine via trading regen
     
  20. 2ndSerpentarius

    2ndSerpentarius New Member

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    You can't really Blink + Ult because of it's insane cast time. You either have to rely on Shadow Blade, or realize that you aren't Tidehunter and you need to rely on an actual initiator to get Doom off successfully.