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How is The Swarm balanced

Discussion in 'Dota Chat' started by giuliano_adam, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. ILLUSETSUNA

    ILLUSETSUNA Member

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    I think they have organic gyroscopes of some sort that enables them the stick with their hosts.
     
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  2. Brambl3claw

    Brambl3claw New Member

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    Well god forbid we talk about the 15 second silence with the Nyx Scarabs.


    Bugs are fine dude. Just get some bug spray.
     
  3. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    The CD is not that big, considering that you max it second after Shukuchi and you use it when you're in range to harass yourself.

    you need how2Weaver now. Even I can do this, and he's not even my fave now (but hey that might change someday, he's so strong lol)

    As a Weaver, your item progression is always Wand, and then a Void stone, Perse and Linkens. Yes I keep my boots bare all the while, then upgrade to Travels, since Treads does not yield a MS increase over plain boots, and you'll rarely be autoattacking all the while because you're a hit-and-run hunter, it's not worth it.
    at the same time, max Shukuchi first, 1 point in Geminate, and max Swarm second. Then proceed to farm your Deso, MKB, Heart and Radi/Butterfly. (and by farm I mean actively hunt for fragile enemy heroes while ocassionally farm lanes/neutral camps in between ganks).
    if you're running into things like invis Drow with SB/SE landing a silence on you and pewpewing you before you can run away, Manta can be useful (activate when a dispel is needed, obviously)

    for talents, it's important to take both Shukuchi upgrades (the first and last).

    Instant* Weaver win.

    (*how "instant" it is actually varies on your teammates' competence at Dota, but you're at least guaranteed not to suck if you do this).
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  4. Dr_JP

    Dr_JP Member

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    Weaver is countered by good hard disables and AoE nukes/disables, and Weaver's most feared enemies are weak now.

    Beastmaster is great (true sight due Necronomicon build most commonnly, can use Ranged necro to dispel Linken's later), but he amost isn't picked at all currently.

    Rastha hasn't been on spotlight by ages (good control with anti-Linken's kit), Lion is somewhat stable, Disruptor does fine against Weaver theoretically (but need good team synergy to work), Ezalor and his manaleak is able to wreck Weaver but usually Weaver wreks him before manaleak can work.

    In the end, a larger map favour heroes with innate very good mobility, which Weaver has a lot of.

    Then, I think Weaver is fine, only Weaver's counters are too weak and new map favours him/her too much.
     
  5. Daddy Sven

    Daddy Sven Moderator Staff Member

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    Given the low armor of units during the early game, the ability is indeed pretty powerful if you use it in the right situation, especially when combined with a blight stone. It's pretty wasted if used like a general nuke for harass and zoning. However one thing about the ability, that really pisses me off, is the fact that the damage is blocked by damage block effects. So by just getting a stout shield, you block a big portion of the ability's damage. That's one of the things keeping it pretty tame atm. That and the fact that the negative armor effect is tied to the beetle, so the moment it's killed, the armor reduction is gone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  6. Dr_JP

    Dr_JP Member

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    Just to state the opposite, Weaver has received a very good Talent tree and was buffed TWICE about his bast attack dmg while Swarm was very buffed about its time interval (Reduced [​IMG] The Swarm damage interval from 1.4/1.25/1.1/0.95 to 1.25/1.1/0.95/0.8).

    If any, just the revertion of these buffs would be enough, instead of trashing the hero about a multitude of other aspects (like what happened to Tinker/Sniper/Huskar/Techies...)
     
  7. Daddy Sven

    Daddy Sven Moderator Staff Member

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    Swarm has been getting buffed ever since it got added to the game and thank god for that. I'd like for the scaling damage to be reverted however. Not only that but remove the damage block interaction and just make the damage weaker at lower ranks. 12/18/24/30. Boom, its damage is now viable but not overwhelming during the early game.

    As you mentioned Sniper, the hero is actually stronger compared to his HoHo HaHa overrated meme version. The only remnants of Sniper's nerf were 0.4agi gain, 0.4 Shrapnel delay increase, minor damage decrease on ult and the only important one being Headshot no longer going through evasion. On the other hand, his Shrapnel's damage has dramatically increased, dealing more than twice the damage of his 6.83version, if you pick up the Shrapnel talent. Dragon Lance and more importantly Pike got added to the game, so no more people looking at you weird for getting a Force Staff. Shadow Blade received a much needed upgrade path which takes care of evasion, so again people don't look down upon the item purchase.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  8. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    it's still good, ranged heroes aren't known for taking up a damage block item. And then you can also run into dumb/inexperienced players like the aforementioned "I need Iron Talon because I'm shit" jungling LC.

    I mean, I can shred the average support at level 2 or 3 with little more than a Wand and the optional Blightstone, so you can probably do even better.
     
  9. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    Phase is stupidly good as first item. And you don't need Linken every game.
     
  10. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    Linken's is needed every single game. I farm it more than BKB now.
    even on carries who are supposed to have BKB instead (not Weaver).

    BKB is so weak in this era it's almost not worth it.

    it's just better to be an escapist with Linken's. you get your Linken's spellblock triggered, you gtfo if the situation isn't favorable to engage. Simple.

    Plus BKB doesn't give you mana.
     
  11. Mimic

    Mimic Member

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    The Swarm is balanced by Cast Animation, Cast Range, Max Travel Distance, Beetles Spawn Radius, Hero Attacks to Destroy, Tick Interval, Damage per Tick, Armor Reduction per Tick, Beetle Duration, Beetle Vision Range, Beetle Bounty, Beetle Experience, Cooldown and Manacost.


    http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Weaver#The_Swarm
     
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  12. KinGe

    KinGe Member

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  13. Mano

    Mano Member

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    The swarm is balanced because poor man's shield counters it.

    Also weaver is squish. Nuke him, kill the bug afterward.
     
  14. SirPinkyNose

    SirPinkyNose Member

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    It's damge is really bad comparing to other traditional nukes. The good thing is it counters low armor caster line up.
     
  15. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    Sure unless there are no single target disables. And even if there are, a lot of times I'd rather turn Pers into Lotus. Make Dust/silences useless, make enemies stun themselves, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  16. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    You have your ultimate for that, dude!
    What Weaver really needs is improved HP, so he can survive enemy nukage and revert damage with ultimate (not to mention his own HP pool is very small). Linken gives that, lotus doesnt. Linken also has better offensive stats, and its ability is passive, so it works even if you arent aware about enemy initiation.
    Both provide mana pool and HP/mana regen (weaver needs that), but i'd never get Lotus for weaver, because he can dispel shit with ult (buy Ahganim, if you want to spam it and use on allies). If you are urgent to counter silence, you better get BKB or manta.

    Swarm is OK. We have much more imbalanced skill in DoTA, like Mirana's double-starstorm and Omni with free BKB for his carry.
     
  17. BornFromAGrave

    BornFromAGrave Member

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    Dispel Silence with ulti? o_O

    And you realy consider Manta on Weaver??? Ahero that got no hp and pretty much gets nothing but raw dmg items for his dps? And afaik illusions dont even get Geminate Attack...
     
  18. DasKobold

    DasKobold Member

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    I would get manta instead of lotus. Depending on the enemy team I go manta first. For example if they have DP and puck, you know, heroes that don't have single target silence/stun but aoe shit. This may sound like common sense, but I see a lot of people still do this, and you can't even tell them without them freaking out.
     
  19. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    Lotus is 1000 gold less than Mantha and has 1/3 the cooldown, plus gives you the reflect for 6 seconds, and you can cast in on allies if you need to. And gives you the regen of Linken. Trust me, it's a very good item. If you're really worried about the hp buy a bracer with all the cash you saved.
     
  20. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    BKB is even cheaper and provides spell immunity.
    Anyway, two main downsides of Lotus is that it gives almost 0 DPS (linken provides +30 damage and 15 AS, manta provides 41 AS and 26 damage, even BKB provides 24 damage, while lotus - only 10), and it gives no HP (and weaver has one of the lowest HP pools in DoTA).
    Buy bracer? That barely helps, maybe Dragon Lance will help a bit, but lance+lotus are quite costly, and your DPS will suck balls. If your weaver is so hard countered by AoE silence, etc, etc, then maybe you just made a wrong pick? Weaver cant shine when he's forced to buy shit items, and he doesnt have nukes to deal damage, all his damage is right-click.
     
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