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[Gameplay] Vow of Unyielding Support

Discussion in 'Item Ideas' started by Skurai, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. Skurai

    Skurai Member

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    Vow of Unyielding Support - 800 gold (Standalone Item)

    (Passive)
    -Gives 1 gold per second (unreliable gold) , 3hp per second, 2% movespeed bonus and 75% mana regen for as long as the hero does NOT kill any enemy or neutral creep.
    -If the hero kills any creep, it loses the passive for 60 seconds.
    -Note, still gains gold for assists and hero kills.

    Usefulness:
    - There can be PURE dedicated support players that will only support and not farm. These players get some gold if they dont farm creeps.
    -Supports with this item will now spend all their time supporting and ganking.

    -Useful on support heroes such as potm/omni/ogre/dazzle/cm/aa/lion/rubick/etc
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  2. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    Maybe not a standalone item, but a recipe? Ring of Regen + RoB + recipe?

    800g bulk investment is very YUGE for a support.
     
  3. Jabutosama

    Jabutosama Member

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    I'm not sure if game truly needs this... if you support actively you will get split gold anyways, and if you are never with team with support you are just doing something wrong. In the end, supports are extremely powerful on their own until carries begin to get items. Giving supports more gold to counter enemies delays strength of carries further to late game
     
  4. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    Supports nowadays should farm. No excuses. We are no longer in the meta where poor supports will be underleveled and underfarmed that they just melt faces infront of carries. Your suggestion however is not bad, I think it has a future. But you need to add some in between stat item. Like Bracers and stuff. Because as the item stands right now, it is an expensive piece of nothing. I like the added HP and Reg, but we need more bulk, especially with this kind of build up 60 gold/min is one of the ugliest talent in game anyway.
     
  5. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    60g/min basically repays itself in mostly 7 minutes.

    I'm not a fan of "more stats" however. Something that directly influences a support's ability to contribute for his team for this item is not gonna be good (like more HP for survival, mana for casting spells, etc.), as @Jabutosama said. Some HP and mana regen can be okay as their impact is negligible in fights.

    If the item needs some buffs, give it an active that provides more non-combat movement (for roaming) or allows it to be a holder of a consumable (as supports usually don't have that much inventory slots).
     
  6. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    Another wind lace variant?
     
  7. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    More like TB but wev.

    I'm lacking originality now so I can't really suggest anything better.
     
  8. Skurai

    Skurai Member

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    Yep, that would be better actually.

    Ring of Regen + sobi mask + recipe = 800 gold

    Do note that the support hero holding this CANNOT gain gold from creeping.
    Killing any creep means losing all the bonuses (gold,hp, 2% movespeed and mana regen) for 60 secs.

    Yes, so the support hero will be gaining gold from this ring + going around getting assist/kills on enemy heroes.

    It does not apply to all support players of course.
    There will be players who just want to gank and support and give all creeps to allies.

    This actually helps the support players level if u consider that it will lead to them ganking alot more rather than spend time farming. Supports are slow farmers anyways, in general.

    I wont say it pays for itself because the support hero cannot farm any creep during the entire time.

    7 minutes is only 420 gold. It takes 13 mins 20 secs to give 800 gold back.
    However, it also gives that abit of movespeed, hp and mana regen to assist in ganking.

    It is not meant to be a major gold boost, but more of just-enough-gold for a major support player.

    This is for the type of support player that is dedicated to waiting quietly to gank enemy heroes and to place wards and to follow allies heroes around to protect them.

    Once u put this on, u pretty much decide not to kill another enemy/neutral creep until the game ends or u sell it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  9. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    Is it even possible to abuse backpack like how we can with TB?
     
  10. Skurai

    Skurai Member

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    Oh ya, gotta make it go into a 60sec cooldown if it is put or removed from backpack. Good point.
     
  11. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    What if I drop to ground prior to the lasthit?
     
  12. hellkn

    hellkn Member

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    The item is a good idea, has potential BUT how about increase cost for something similar to Hand of Midas while also increasing gold per minute for something much more relevant, at least 150 gold per minute?
     
  13. Skurai

    Skurai Member

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    Same penalty applies :)

    Hmmm imo, hand of midas should remain the same and this isnt similar because midas is for farming. This is to give u minimum gold while u spend your entire game supporting...without worry of needing to farm.

    It encourages ganking. It makes the support hero a dedicated supporter....who will never steal even 1 creep from a carry lol

    Hmmm perhaps 60 gold can be tweaked but 150 gold per minute is wayy too much lol. U want more gold? Gank successfully and dont feed.

    Or perhaps it can give bonus 50 gold per assist or hero kill.
    It makes their VOW even stronger :D
    Support heroes can buy this at start and juz roam.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  14. hellkn

    hellkn Member

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    Thats the reason why the cost goes to about 1400+500=1900 gold. Much more gold cost on item but much more gold gain after build item too.
     
  15. Skurai

    Skurai Member

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    I dont get wat u mean.

    U dont gain more gold because farming creeps is not worth it. If u farm creeps, u lose the bonus gold and stats for a long time. If u want more gold, u do not buy this item, and instead, u go farm creeps.....But doing so hurts your carry....

    Reality is that intels also need gold...but they dont wanna disturb their team carry farm.
    This is one solution and the gold gain is not so much that they will be rich but, it is enough for supports and the team carries will benefit from having more creeps to farm and more support from intels.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  16. Dzin-Zakk

    Dzin-Zakk Member

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    Nice idea. Although I'm kinda sceptical that the item would be useful on itself. +2hp/s and +75% mp/s is nothing to write home about considering there're urn of shadows and tranquil boots in the same price range.

    How about a basic item with 60gpm at 100-150g that has a no-combat restriction and later builds into Tranquil Boots? You'd justify why TB has the same restriction and it will be useless for everyone but roamer and somewhat support and solo offlaner while still fixing their gpm issues.
     
  17. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    Yeah so far Midas would be more viable on supports than this item because it provides Reliable Gold while boosting their level up.

    Even so, Midas is in shitty situation. EXP talents and Bounty Runes make it less relevant.
     
  18. Skurai

    Skurai Member

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    A basic item would be ok but it should not work only if the user kills a creep. It needs to have a no-creep-kill restriction.

    The idea is the hp/mana/ms buffs help ganking and the support hero gets gold as long as he does not kill creeps. The supporter gets more gold for more assists only. Thus, it pushes the supporter to do wat a support hero does best, that is, not kill creeps and to assist in ganks as much as possible.

    I guess the numbers need some tweaking. Btw, it is +3 hp per second.

    Perhaps buff to 80 gold per minute, 3 hp per second and 75% mana regen, 2% movespeed and lower total cost to 700 gold. Thats good imo.



    Midas cost way too much at around 2k gold and it gives attack speed, which is useless to intels.

    U can get this item at start and juz roam non-stop with some hp/mana/movespeed boosts and knowing that your gold needs are being taken care of.
     
  19. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    The issue is that when you buy Midas, it is worth the price.

    Attack speed is actually good because it allows Int heroes who are generally ranged heroes, having quite solid damage but no attack speed to make use of it. So the attack speed Midas grants is great - as it is more effective on heroes having low AS. More AS allows them to finish their attack frontswing earlier, chipping in small but important damage during a disable. Bonus Reliable Gold allows Midas to pay itself in 5 minutes, and extra EXP helps supports to catch up with their carry teammates.

    Midas is a great investment, but it is worth the price. I have to insist this a second time again. Unlike carries who need core items at suitable timeframe, supports can leisurely build up their income for a Midas. Once they secure a Midas, their economy is basically a non-issue.

    Frankly, regeneration is just some extras that you can survive without them. The restriction is quite too great as supports can spend a few dozens seconds to clear out a small neutral camp for more gold - carries don't really need this camp and it can be replenished in a minute. Extra MS is juicy, though.
     
  20. flamegod0

    flamegod0 Member

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    I would say interesting concept man. Would even cut the downtime penalty to 30/40 sec. 60 sec gonna be too long. however, if you decided to change this downtime, I would suggest making it not a gold per sec, but like 10 gold/10 sec. your hero would have a buff that is removed and reapplied each 10 sec while making that "ka-ching" sound.

    about the gpm, even 80 is fine. because you already lost your 800 as sup that rarely farms for an item that would make you farm even less. with a one min downtime. one ward per min won't cut it. even farming a lane when your mid is rotating (or other core is not in their lane), give you about 220 gold in the early game. and that scenario is not really rare. or 2 mid neutral camps. or just randomly last hitting when pushing together.

    about the recipe, I would agree to add lace instead of a recipe. extra MS for a roamer is like extra cheez on top. well, it depends on how you suggest it though. If you buff the GPM, no extra MS is fine btw.