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Faceless void discussion.

Discussion in 'Dota Chat' started by vorsybl, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. vorsybl

    vorsybl Member

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    Hello there everyone! I want to be the best dota player in the entire world. Need help on that venture.

    In this game, I play against a PA. MOM usage was bad, but mom in general, doesn't seem like a good item here. Against this particular draft, what would a strong item progression be, and why?

    I also messed up my skill build, kama mentioned is good to max out bash in the safe lane, as opposed to time walk, but then when they brought 3-5 to kill me, and time walk wasnt' maxed, when it couldve been, i couldn't escape. I think im going to max time walk in any condition, since the escape cd is really important. As far as time dilation, kama suggests to ignore until later, but my argument is that with one point, you can freeze cd and slow 3-5 attackers.
     
  2. Abdulink

    Abdulink Member

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    Give the Dotabuff link or something mate, no one's watching that. Also always max TW first even in the safe lane.
     
  3. vorsybl

    vorsybl Member

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    What's so bad about it?

    Also, who are faceless void's hardest counters?
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  4. Abdulink

    Abdulink Member

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    I never said anything's bad about it, it's just tedious to watch a video. A quick Dotabuff link to the match is quicker to assess and give advice.

    Void doesn't have any single 'hard counter' in my opinion, nonetheless there are quite a few heroes who can fuck him up hard early-mid.

    In lane he doesn't do well against heroes with DoT like Veno/Silencer as TW is ineffective against those, silences are his bane early-mid (Sky and Riki are particularly annoying, I strongly recommend a Force Staff against Riki) until he gets the tools to counter it, others carries like PA/Troll can out DPS him mid game easily.

    Rooters are also annoying, CM/Meepo etc. Meepo in particular can kill you easily until you get BKB/Manta.

    Pudge can be pretty annoying as he can hook out targets from your Chrono quite easily. Disruptor can fuck up your initiation with glimpse pretty hard. Wyvern also is annoying cos of his heal. Willow's Ulti is also incredibly annoying until you get a BKB, and of course she can also root you in Chrono.

    For now these come to mind.
     
  5. vorsybl

    vorsybl Member

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    Ty bro, this is dope info
     
  6. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    dotabuff - welp will watch it and see.
    But just notes, maxing bash is for getting kill potential, if you feel pressured - maxing Time Walk is alright.

    Told you that MoM is not optimal on Void (or on any hero), unless you are with much better awareness of it's usage and benefits.Maelstrom is so much easier to use and capitalize on.
     
    mapdesigner likes this.
  7. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    Diffusal is good with him. Specially if you get Manta as well. By the time they recover from your Time Dilation, they don't have the mana to use their spells and fight back. It also gives him that massive slow for finishing people or escaping.

    I still think MoM is good though. Or at least get IAS items like Moonshard and Butterfly.
     
  8. vorsybl

    vorsybl Member

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    Hi guys. I'll be playing this hero much more moving forward. I already have nearly 120 games on him.

    Many of the wins came from buying mom early to mid game. K is right, it's dangerous to use, but I only use berserk to finish off an enemy faster in a chrono.

    Also, what criteria conditions does it make sense to buy a battlefury over a mjnollir?

    Diffusal is another item i should be getting on void, against anyone dependent on mana, like most int hero
     
  9. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    I would say there is no reason to get Battlefury over Mjolnir on Void. However if you are desperate to counter PL or CK, might as well get both.
     
  10. vorsybl

    vorsybl Member

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    What kinds of drafts does Void excel against? Any and all qualities from lack of disable to squishiness etc. and when should i choose weaver over void? And at what point can i pick other people?

    My void is getting OD at this rank. I'm averaging 5 deaths per game with 14-20 kills and 20-30 assists. And each game has been horrible conditions like lane partner is a hard carry also and auto attacks lane, or, the cm on my team doesn't buy wards, forcing me too, etc.

    I'm still able to win but i have to TriHard


    In that clip, we were down rax, with no team, allies didn't help me at all for the majority of the game. That right there, was a moment where they were behind me for the first time, they hadn't given me vision all game for a chrono, so I thought i had nothing to lose at that point. THe little enemy movement i could see briefly gave me the feeling they were at the bottom of hill, so i hopped the ledge and did my best.

    After that fight, we were took that rax, and the game was even. I didn't realize, since it felt like shit all game playing that match, 1v9, but I held the highest net worth for the majority of the game. And after that fight i started to snowball even stronger
    So, imagine if i get a match or two with supports like Iressia, who do not auto attack wave, who zone the offlaner, and who stack camps. Those games i'll be double as strong, and the games will end in half the time

    MOM + bkb is amazing at finishing off enemies and being somewhat untouchable during
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  11. Abdulink

    Abdulink Member

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    Do you play much Void? Bfury mana regen is extremely important to spam TW to farm the map fast and become a mini AM.

    Mjollnir is good if you have a CM on team though.
     
  12. vorsybl

    vorsybl Member

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    Even with aquila, i sometimes find problems with mana regen. I've been playing void almost exclusively now. Perhaps i should switch to bf?
     
  13. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    I don't find any mana problem with Void, even without a single item for mana regeneration (outside of casual Magic Stick for the early game).
    So it's more about the management, than the items.

    Also - Aquila on Void is completely unnecessary and just delaying other items, if you so much wish the sustain - purchase a Infused Raindrops.
     
  14. Abdulink

    Abdulink Member

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    I always get MoM on Void. The thing is, if it's dangerous, don't press it, that's it. It provides too much solo kill potential to just ignore getting. Treads+MoM with Chrono is a guaranteed kill on most heroes early-mid.

    The thing about fury is:

    It builds from RoH which is sometimes needed to survive your lane
    Provides Mana regen for TW spamming to farm fast between lanes and camps. You could argue for clarities isntead but it isn't the same.

    Also now that Mael doesnt provide AS anymore it's gotten worse as well for Void.

    Diffusal for me personally is a meh item.

    Then you're most likely not accelerating your farm with TW. There's no way you can just 'manage' your mana when you are spamming TW from camp to camp to lane to camp and so on.

    Aquilla is a waste. If you need stats early for fights go dual Bands instead.

    Yes you definitely should at least try it out. Void is a naturally slow farmer.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2018
  15. vorsybl

    vorsybl Member

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    K said the same thing. Saw sumail do it in a vid so thought it was valid. Will skip it and get preservernce instead
     
  16. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @Abdulink:
    I really doubt that Time Walk with it's 40 mana is straining on a hero who doesn't need mana to farm. With just Power Treads switching you can easily negate around half of it's cost and 20 mana per camp or 40 per minute is not a hero can't sustain with natural mana regeneration.

    Further more he doesn't need 1,000 mana in a fight, 300 mana is the amount he needs or slightly more if he reach higher ultimate levels. But nearly half of it can be covered by a Magic Stick.

    Sorry to tell you, but mana management is important and probably one of the few things I'm good at because I usually play support and their performance is highly dependable on their mana consumption.
     
  17. Abdulink

    Abdulink Member

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    You don't need mana to kill creeps per say, but you need it for the mobility just like AM's blinks.

    The old 'PT switching for infinite mana' theory is old and needs to retire. There's no way you can do what I said with mere tread switching. If you argue for ferriyng clarities on the other hand, it's a totally different story.

    If you are spamming TW to move around the map you won't have mana left for Chrono.
     
  18. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @Abdulink:
    Don't know how you use Time Walk, how efficient you think Treads switching is - the lower mana pool you have, the higher efficiency you get out of it, nor how good you think the natural regeneration of a hero is - but until Void build his Manta - he doesn't have any mana issues.

    Having enough for traveling around the map and clearing creeps, using all of his spells in a fight - he can sustain that without a single item for mana on him, having one little one (like Raindrops) is more then he needs, but can appreciate and be much more liberal with spell usage afterwards.
     
  19. effreit89

    effreit89 Member

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    See that's his point. he wants "liberal" usage of TWs in the early/mid game while farming like what AM does - meaning using TW every cd to move around the map/jungle faster.

    I don't think BF is bad on Void actually since it now builds from a Demon Edge and has a QB on it.
     
  20. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @effreit89:
    I was not against BF on Void, just stating that he doesn't need it for the mana regeneration part that much.

    Also - you don't need TW usage on cooldown, because of it's awkward cast animation and casting time, a lot of the times it's easier to move on foot, unless level 20 talent is involved or some obstacle.

    Void can't clear camps as fast as AM and don't need TW as much as AM needs his blink, he has higher mana pool and lower cost, why would he need mana regeneration.