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European Politics - 2017 Elections and Brexit discussions

Discussion in 'World News & Debate' started by Nezekan, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. Seethe

    Seethe Member

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    You cannot colonize a land against the will of its inhabitants, or even against the will of the refugees themselves. That is evil, illegal, and it's exactly what the EU is doing.

    There are so many poor people in the EU. There's drug addicted mole people in my city's sewer system. What is the EU doing about it? Nothing. There's homeless mole people in the sewers of Las Vegas as well, in a country that owns a gigantic portion of the world's wealth. Not a word about it from the US government. But hey, as long as you're from the middle east, here's some free money. Great fucking job.
     
    lovestep likes this.
  2. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Member

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    I don't think that this is how it works. You also clearly have never been an immigrant.

    Immigrants usually do the most work, but of course the lazy locals love to portray immigrants as lazy leeches who suck money from the average Joe with incomplete high school education. Please... sure, there are lazy immigrants from everywhere, but that's not how all immigrants are by a longshot. You are just mindlessly eating media propaganda. And if you really cared about a homeless person near your home, you would maybe do something about it instead of complaining on PD? Like idk dude.
     
  3. Seethe

    Seethe Member

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    Yes, I'm such a lazy local, with my 300 euro salary, working 8 hours per day, while some people who do not work get even more. That's what the EU is pushing for, at least. It definitely encourages me to work even harder.

    And I do help homeless people, for your information. I help them with food when I notice them, and when I have food on me. Never with money, however. It's a good thing you assumed that I never did, though. That totally doesn't underline your condescending nature.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  4. Nezekan

    Nezekan Moderator Staff Member

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    But its something the whole world does. Mole people are not visible, refugees are. And countries like Poland and even Romania are paid 10-15 billion each year as "catch up" money, so that they can improve slowly. But only few good countries put this to good use, such as Hungary. Many of them have corrupt governments and don't spend this money the way they should.

    Poland needs to do something to help EU. It can maybe help financially or take in none-Muslim migrants or anything. Its a crisis and everyone are contributing in their own way. Everyone except Poland. With their attitude, they shouldn't be in the EU. We help each other during crisis.

    When you seek asylum in a country, the government can choose where you will live until you become a full citizen. This is has been the case since asylum became a thing in international law. This also applies to refugees. So its not "colonizing" since its temporary until they become citizens. The way EU works, each country is like a US state. So they can't keep the door open for money and benefits and close them to problems.
     
  5. Petique

    Petique Member

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    But I don't care what she has done for Germany. I mean, I am glad she is loved by her people and that she made their lives better but I am not a German citizen so it doesn't concern me how successful her economic or education policies are. What I am concerned about is the fact that she is trying to meddle in other countries' internal affairs, forces other countries to accept illegal immigrants without the consent of the country's government and essentially seeks to establish a sort of hegemony in Europe. Sorry but I can't stand for that and regardless of how popular she is Germany I and the majority of Europe oppose such measures.

    He is the a president of a sovereign country, maybe he should act like that?


    Why what has the US done to violate France's interests?


    Then why did you say that Macron's party is made up of passionate reformers?


    You do realize that Macron literally cut millions of euros from housing benefits and women's rights associations, right? Economically he is no different than the torries. Also since you seem to always cite the economic growth of France as a measure of how successful a president and his administration is, Trump is also very successful then. By your logic Trump is doing great because unemployment hasn't been this low since 25 years ago and the economy is up by 2-3%.



    Nope, every member state has veto power in the EU parliament.

    It literally did.

    No it doesn't have to be. The country's government has full power over its borders and only the government should decide whether it is willing to let in immigrants or not. The fact that Greece, Italy and Germany decided to let everyone in without any control is no one's business but theirs.

    Again this isn't about Poland. It wasn't even Poland that lobbied against the quotas, it was Slovakia and Hungary.
    No, Hungary hasn't accepted any migrants, same with Czechia and Slovakia. I don't know why do you keep saying that it's only Poland and Hungary hasn't gotten anything but insults from the EU in regards to its immigration policy.


    But it isn't just Europeans that are migrating to Germany more than 2 million people from the middle east and north africa migrated to Germany and that's a number from 2015 so it is probably much higher than that.


    Yeah sure, Abdul al Malik whose parents are from Lybia is sure going to be a true German. Proud Aryan material right there. These people won't assimilate, unemployment is high, they leech off German taxpayer money, live in muslim quarters, isolated from the rest of society and more often than not become criminals and low life thugs.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/25/migrant-crime-germany-rises-50-per-cent-new-figures-show/
    http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/k...gezeigte-vergewaltigungen-in-bayern-1.3664325




    That's a false analogy as unlike the US, the EU isn't a country and nor it is a federation. The EU member states are sovereign, independent countries and its completely within the realm of their power to control and regulate immigration as they see fit.


    No, you don't seem to have followed the news regarding this. Poland and the oher EU members weren't given a choice. The EU court, as a result of a purely political motive, decided that every single member state must take x number of refugees that is set by the quotas that have been developed recently. So no, Poland doesn't have a choice, the EU and Germany are essentially saying: Except x number of migrants or else!

    And I have already stated why this is a problem:

     
  6. Seethe

    Seethe Member

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    Uh, no? The EU isn't that dumb to give money to a bunch of corner street thugs that are voted in power by a bunch of peasants who never bothered to finish school. I don't know about Poland, but Romania's EU fund absorption is....0%. Yeah, that is right. 0.18% to be more precise. 10-15 billions every 4 years more likely. And it's not just about Eastern Europe here, don't know where this fucking obsession comes from. There's homeless, poor people everywhere, or old people who are alone and can no longer take care of themselves. Fewer, but they are. Guess those are invisible in the face of refugees as well.

    As for them staying only "temporary" in Europe, call me skeptical but I don't see that happening. Not only do I not trust politicians, ever, they are not registered, nothing is organized, everything about this is disorderly, they are escaping in a clandestine and undocumented way all over Europe. If that doesn't say "permanent" I don't know what does.
     
  7. Nezekan

    Nezekan Moderator Staff Member

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    If you can stand for that, then simply leave. And I don't say this to you, but in general. EU has 65% or more approval rating in all western countries. So something is being done right.

    So world leaders cannot work together now? Good to know.

    Affront to clean energy and climate change.

    They want reforms. Whether passionate or not.

    "Housing benefits" is so different than cutting funds from children and their education. The former is a bonus, the latter should be mandatory.

    Trump is no more successful than Obama in economy. They are just focused elsewhere. Under Obama, the growth of private sector was unrivaled. Unemployment rate doesn't really reflect the economy. The country might be doing well but blocked by all regulations and benefits that it cannot provide new jobs for its people. Which is exactly what's happening in France.

    You are mixing parliament with European council. In the council they don't. Laws are made in the council and the parliament decides the how and why.

    Lol. Try being a border country and then lets talk about "letting" people in. Even if they used every police and military personnel, it wouldn't be enough to cover all their border.

    Yes. Poland didn't lobby, which is a legal way to oppose something. It just decided to broke the law. Which is why its getting the treatment its getting while Hungary and Slovakia don't.

    And the issue with those two countries is not what you think, You should read this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ylum-seekers-hungary-hardline-eu-viktor-orban

    Both Hungary and Slovakia accept asylum seekers. So the refugees can go to these countries provided they go through the asylum process and prove their life was in danger in their home country by case by case basis.

    Of course they have let people in. Do you live in a bubble or something? Just read the link I gave you. Only Poland hasn't, and it didn't use a legal to do it. It was like "FUCK YOU".

    Not from middle east. simply "not from Europe". Germany took in a very good number of Asian and black people as well as people from mid-Asia.

    This is beyond pathetic. So what you are doing is ignoring the statistics I gave you that shows over 80% of immigrants in Germany start assimilating well, with their children becoming full Germans and you talk about an individual case?

    Unemployment is not high in Germany. Remember that link you posted about unemployment of migrants in Europe? Conveniently it didn't mention Germany, which it should have since Germany took in more migrants than any other country in Europe, so you'd think it should be a prime example of it right? Well, apparently not. Because migrants in Germany tend to find work. There is a simple reason. First of all, there is abundance of jobs in Germany. Low class jobs that doesn't even require speaking and most Germans won't do them. Secondly, working has a lot of benefits in Germany and you only get them if you keep working. Eventually you can get a working visa instead of being an illegal which solves a lot of your problems. There is a reason Germany almost issues more working visas than rest of the Europe combined. Everyone want to work there because of working conditions, the salary and the benefits that come with it.

    Yeah but they are obligated to help other European states and uphold the European law, or there will be consequences. With the biggest consequence being getting the boot. Help can be in form of money or personnel as well. They don't have to take people in.

    The issue with Poland is not just the migration. If you have been following the news yourself, the problem between EU and Hungary is just some bickering at this point and no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Poland has been a problematic element for several years now. The recent laws that they passed makes it very easy for politicians to fire judges. That's because the judges in Poland are on the side of law, not nationalism. Just like how Trump was blocked (rightfully) by the law. Its one of the most important values of western democracy that judiciary system should be completely independent from the government and politicians can be sued as easy as a civilian.

    This is blatant breaking of core EU laws and it can't be allowed to stand. Commission already started procedure against Poland conform w article 258 and 7. We'll see where it goes. Its very likely Poland will be stripped of its voting rights in EU.

    I didn't know about Romania's absorption since I didn't look it up. Its pretty low and it should't be that low. We are paying countries like Poland 15 billion while they don't deserve it.

    And I meant by temporary stay in a EU country, not the Europe itself. So they move migrants to a country for some years. After that, when they can take care of themselves, they can go anywhere else they like. Its organized in some countries while its not in others.
     
  8. Seethe

    Seethe Member

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    It shouldn't be that low, but it is because scum keeps getting voted into power. I have no issues whatsoever with how the EU distributes the funds. They should be based on merits, not level of development.
     
  9. MWaser

    MWaser Member

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    Nah thx we don't need middle eastern refugees in Poland, we already got a million ukrainians after Russia fucked shit up.
     
  10. Seethe

    Seethe Member

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    Here's EU not giving a single fuck about them. Hmmm, isn't that peculiar?

    On an unrelated note, please drop dead Finland, Germany, Austria and especially the Netherlands. The pettiness of some of these western/northern European countries knows no bounds. Year by year I am starting to get more and more disgusted by their garbage tier politics, and the fact that they deny this kind of shit, because their citizens are too stupidly brainwashed to not realize that Schengen is about trading, and no, that doesn't mean more gypsies will come to pristine little Western Europe, free movement is already allowed through EU. And of course it is their citizens who vote them, so saying "yes" would lose them popularity. Even though Bulgaria and Romania have fulfilled the quotas to join Schengen, it looks like this does not matter. What matters is how they feel about it on the moment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  11. Nezekan

    Nezekan Moderator Staff Member

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    I've been screaming for Ukraine. While the Ukraine itself is a top issue for the EU, there isn't much care about Ukrainians abroad. That's because they are not really vocal and Ukraine is not part of the EU.

    Also I would ignore German politics for the time being, because election is close.
     
  12. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Member

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    So the EU partners with the US Empire to destabilize entire regions to force gigantic immigrant waves and creates conditions that demotivate locals to work, but you are hating on... refugees? Please, explain.

    And since when are Trump and May the standards of political accomplishment? Being better than Trump means nothing. It means you are better than utter shit.
     
  13. Nezekan

    Nezekan Moderator Staff Member

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    Since America and England are superpowers and the majority in those countries also elected those people.

    ----------------------

    I'm sad about France, truly. The workers have so many laws and protections that it barely fits in 20 pages of articles and 99% of these workers don't even know about them until they get in trouble. So what this does is scaring away foreign investment and instead brings in foreign workers who take the jobs from French people and there is NO LAW to protect them from losing their job to someone who is more than willing to work for minimum wage who comes from a poorer country.

    Macron wants to remove some of these protections and turn them into individual contracts between the employer and workers and also don't allow foreign workers to take job from French workers. I think its the best way, it combines a good amount of protection with good amount of freedom. Ironically this angers both sides since none of them really get what they want.

    People like Melenchon (hard let) and Le Pen (far right) and those that follow them are both diseases plaguing the society of every country. The likes of Melenchon may appear "pretty" outside, for advocating protection for the weak and common people, but they are like a disease with internal symptoms. It still kills. And the likes of Le pen are ugly too, with external symptoms, on top of being a lethal disease.
     
  14. Abstract.Raze

    Abstract.Raze Member

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    That Angela Merkel is beloved by us? from what are you making this up? we aren't anymore in 2005...

    The far right AFD became the third biggest party in Germany since 2016 which is a short amount of time, it's trashtalk, the CDU did nothing for our elderlies in the asylums, we actually lack personal to take care of them, they experience misery, people who built up our country after the WWII, people are pissed off, giving free pass to those refuges while maintaining them instead increasing the old-age-pension, our people feel unsure, crime has risen as well.

    I repeat myself, from what the **** are you making this up? It's joke or are you serious?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  15. Nezekan

    Nezekan Moderator Staff Member

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    Take a look at this and tell me if "3rd biggest party" really matters.

    [​IMG]

    It doesn't. The 4th, 5th and 6th are at AfD's throat and the fall of both CDU and SPD is very unlikely. If one falls, everyone will migrate to support the other. So its an impossible situation for AfD.

    And I'm not going to repeat myself. No politician is perfect. Germany had its biggest surplus since unification of east and west, it was the first country to defeat global economic crisis, it has one of the best working conditions etc etc... Merkel can't "give a pass" to refugees. She got the votes to do it. She is not some dictator. And now they passed votes to have more strict immigration laws. Do you see CDU and SPD really close? That's before the time she passed the new immigration law. After that, the popularity got high again. Meaning people were happy with everything else.
     
  16. Abstract.Raze

    Abstract.Raze Member

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    Again, I'm highlighting their positioning ranking since 2016 and not since over 15 years, that's a clear sign that thousands of Germans do not welcome the actual policies which are not really in favor for our population, others politician parties actually needed a lot of years to gain their actual poll positioning, the AFD did not even need 2 years to stay where they currently are, this all points to a drastic social change in Germany against the ones who're staying at the lead, that's my point, people are not happy and it's increasing.

    The votes she acquired for the refuge plan policies was from other leftist politician parties such like the SPD, with the same rotten mentality since Germany operates under a parliamentary legislative system, you don't have any single idea what's going on in my country a lot of Germans despises Angela Merkel and this rotten system which is deviating priorities.

    If you don't have any idea what's happening in my country, stop acting like a big loudmouth divulging wrong things over my people, parroting the same thing over again, things changed, there are open wounds.

    If Germany is staying where it currently stays, is thanks to our progressive people and our culture, now if you can't recognize the German population and consider their hard work over years after the WWII, being frank, I don't welcome any sort of your praisings toward my country if you can't even consider the primordial reason why my country developed well.

    Not everything revolves around a political party, wake up from your dream bubble.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  17. Eli_Green

    Eli_Green Member

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    England isn't a superpower btw; hasn't been for a long time.

    Only superpower is USA; with China almost reaching the requirements to be one.
     
  18. Nezekan

    Nezekan Moderator Staff Member

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    AfD is not some new party lol. It was formed when the previous far right party failed and collapsed. Its the remnants of that party. Not to mention AfD was expelled from European Conservatives and Reformists (ECR). Any valid right wing party is part of this group, because they represent them on many levels of EU. AfD is now literally a rogue party, who is shunned by moderate right wing parties.

    What you mean is that majority voted for it. For your information I'm in process of becoming a German citizen, it just takes quite a while because German bureaucracy is strict and there are no shortcuts.

    I am aware what is happening in our country. All the parties refuse to work with AfD and inside the parliament no one sits near them. Literally you can always see empty seats around them in every single session. They are not silenced or anything, but they are a very sharp reminder of what Germany was not long ago, specially when controversial things such as AfD advocating police to shoot migrants happened.

    So, have you looked at Merkel's past? Individually she has contributed so much to Germany, many years before she even became the Chancellor. So, she is one of those people you are talking about and she is most likely the only woman who can count as one of the hard working people in Germany because women really didn't do these things in those years. I'm going to be really frank with you here. Germany allowed Turks to come here because Germans simply refused to do the low class jobs that needs to be done. Because everyone had the capacity to advance in life. So there was no one to carry stuff around or clean toilets or wash the dishes or other minimum wage jobs. That's what the Turks did for many years until they started becoming very sophisticated themselves. Now Germany needs more labor, whether you like or not.

    I'm all for someone else becoming Chancellor, maybe the change will be refreshing. But its not going to be someone from AfD.
     
  19. Abstract.Raze

    Abstract.Raze Member

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    What happened before, doesn't concern anyone, the party was formed in 2013 point end, there is a change of ideals, and your so-called previous political party from where the AFD in part originated, was from the LKR (Liberal-Conservative Reformer) which wasn't a far-right party, again, what the **** are you talking there?

    Yes, leftist parties in its majority and if you're on the way of becoming a German citizen just fine for you.

    Yes, leftist parties with the intention of perpetuating themselves in the power, people wich sell their country for free, a pest at its best definition.

    It's about prevailing our culture which impulsed our country out from ruins after the WWII, I don't welcome the Islam, look at middle east at its best example, despite of their economic income through their oil sales, they can't provide some sort of social stability, monotheists governments matching the lust of our European monarchies before we chopped their heads in 1792, for example, the Saudi Prince Al Waleed Bin Talal which buys cars like this:

    [​IMG]

    What do you expect from a religion which does not provide secularism, which harms women like this:



    I don't expect anything positive from such people, the rate of rapes against our women, increased, those people should stay in their country and evolve develop like we did in Europe.

    Not because the AFD is the far-right, they will commit the same things what Germany did during the Nazi times, it's just simple, go back to your countries and make something out of them, if you truly consider yourself a landsman from those countries, because after the WWII, we did not escape like a sissy, we stayed and we rebuilt our nation from ashes, because despite that all happened, we loved our Vaterland, now what the hell should we await from those people which does not stay in their homelands while trying to do something out of them, people who abandoned their countries without being first successful there. One should really believe, they truly like it here when they abandoned the country where they were born without even doing anything? It's not contradictory?

    So simple as that, you don't obey the law get shot, you're not a landsman you have to behave with double amount of courtesy, we are in intense times, any unregistered refuge at the border could be a terrorist, they make chaos despite being aware of the whole situation, get shot.

    It's just Germans did not procreate consistently, Germany lacks youth, but the government already started long ago in encouraging Germans to have a family through the Kindergeld (Child's Money) and it's working.

    It will have an end soon or later and the Right Wing is the cure.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  20. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    Just a slight note,
    Super-power (as a country) is considered any country who can influence the worlds Geo politic situation.

    Economy wise - USA, European Union (as a whole) and China are the moving forces, with their GDP combined around 2/3 of the whole world.

    Then you have army, influence and others, which include some other countries like Russia for example.
    So it becomes USA, EU, China and Russia as super-powers in that sense.

    Russia's GDP might not be as high as others, yet their military power (not counting nukes here) is enough to threaten any small country in the world (yet, they usually look at their neighbors to expand their territory).

    USA usually wage wars for resources instead of territory, EU and it's armed force (NATO) is rather peaceful and are just securing themselves against Russia's aggression, while sending small contingents in other parts of the world, usually for peace-keeping operations.

    China has a lot of influence over the surrounding area, namely backing up North Korea as a proxy.


    England on the other hand is just the regular rich and developed country, but with it's tiny land and population cannot do anything or influence anyone.
    Their revenue is held high thanks to it's historical might, good overall situation in comparison to other European countries (which alone are not something that important, even the richest of them all - Germany).
    UK military is a joke, in comparison to the 'poorest' super-power - Russia.
    Their most famous special forces in the world, British S.A.S. are a mere brigade of around 3,000 of which nearly quarter of are just regular soldiers and not the actually fighting force. And their fame is severely outdated and completely not on point with the reality, where the US regular forces have while not better training, a lot more of combat experience, which is much more important.
    Even the France's "Foreign Legion" is in far better shape right now (combat wise).

    So UK is nor rich enough, nor military threat to anyone to be considered a super power even by a long shot.



    Don't know why in DotA forum there is so lively threat about the politics, which is usually a corrupt to the core shit-show.
    While I'm not really interested in it, I know a lot of things concerning my local government because of personal connections with quite a lot of people involved in it.
    Can tell you one thing - every major decision always is a favor to some group of people and their interests, not a single thing is done 'for the greater good'.
    Even a good person who enter in with the noblest intents will get kicked out or changed and turned into the same kind of person which we all despise when we're calling them 'politicians' as a whole.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017