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Dragonscus Coffee Shop

Discussion in 'Hero Ideas' started by Wrooks, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. ZizZizZiz1

    ZizZizZiz1 Member

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  2. 1Frame_Dynamism

    1Frame_Dynamism Member

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    Good discussions peeps
    I would just 'like' all your posts but I guess I'll chime in instead (super quickly because i gtg)

    @summer-penguin said
    Thou making (or even reviewing) heroes attempting to stir the meta would be no easy task, to us, that's for sure.

    @Dark Mizuki said
    Still, I do believe it's a good chance to explore something you haven't done before

    I think that 'stirring the meta' or 'exploring something that hasn't been done' has to directly be associated with engagement. That's the way the youtube series 'Extra Credits' would define it anyway.
    You could say 'meaningful interactions' or 'agency' or anything like that too.

    I've seen a lot of things on the old and new site that would have those things that 'stir the meta' but not in the sense of actual PLAY. As in, the ACT of playing the game.
    Something like a mechanical difference isn't what I'm referring to (an ability that amplifies damage for how much you're blinded or slowed or something) as they function ENGAGINGLY identical to other abilities.
    AKA, there's nothing to 'watch out for', nothing to 'play' with that's heavily approachable or counter-playable.

    Even if you look at the themes of some of the recent 'Hero Contests' presented here.
    Something like gold-getting abilities don't necessarily dictate ANYTHING in the game when the only counter-play to it is 'don't get hit' or simply 'farm faster than them/don't let them farm' or anything of that nature.
    Things like 'Reincarnate' abilities leaning anywhere on free denies or delayed-deaths that are essentially unavoidable by any means of counter-play on-the-fly outside of... wait it out, are again, not engaging in any way.

    The Earth Spirit example you discussed earlier for example. It's not so much the complexity or simplicity, but the root concept of it is the game-play dynamic it adds.
    Specifically. 'Drop things in places, and use spells ACCORDING to the placement of those things'
    Without that, the Hero doesn't bring much for dynamics to the game-play. In other words, if the interactive mental play of people being able to DO SOMETHING about that placement (seeing it [Wildstar is considered 'good combat' 100% BECAUSE of boss indicators] and being able to do things about it [there's a reason Earth Spirits Geomagnetic Grip was made less mindlessly free)...
    If that's NOT there, there's NO REASON FOR THE HERO.
    You could design any hero with that basis in mind (drop things in place and what do you do with them?)
    Theme it any way you want.
    That core game-play engagement thing being something that's preliminary to what actions take place, is why it works. It could have been any hero with any theme, but without that Innate, there's no Hero. They would bring nothing more to DotA.
    Naturally as well, when a mechanic is like THAT, it means the Hero is going to lean on Utility more than anything.
    The same way a Hero killing themselves to revive needs incentive to kill themselves (damage to self)
    Or any other recent-hero.

    Changing the game on an ENGAGEMENT level is the only reason any 'addition' (hero or other) is worth bringing to the game.
    We have all the Centaur's we need. How else can we make the game PLAY?

    A simple word on synergy and this topic would be looking at someone in the game for a long time. Nature's Prophet for example. The concept is pretty fluid, you want someone to be everywhere? Give them a unique disable, want them to push? The disable isn't a hard disable because that's a little to harsh on a global Hero (see Wisp's Tether change/Centaur change) and make it mesh with global pushing. Make the Ult global but it's catered instead of to Hero kills on the map (zeus/spec) to that pushing and BEING everywhere anytime.
    The theme (game-play-wise) is engaging in the sense of both HOW to play and EXTREMELY leaning on the COUNTER play.
    Without that counter-play there, the engagement and interaction between all players on both sides, there's no reason for the Hero to be there. Give him a hard stun, steroids, buffs to apply, and he's NO LONGER a synergistic Hero as NEITHER himself as a whole OR as himself within a game.

    Just adding to the babble
    I'll grab a cacao drink with some honey



    Edit/Question for all of you
    copy pasted from elsewhere

    You remember a (I think 36?) hero post/thread on the old forums? It was in like (hehe) 2014 or so.
    When that was made, there were 50+ heroes ready, but I only managed to template the 30+ before 'stuff' happened and I had to ditch.
    I'm back.

    Was looking through that thing again (ALL of those heroes are different than they were in the post even) and was slowly tuning them to the modern game, and aiming to template them all + post them all

    ^by that I mean, I glanced at the archived forums + what I had in my folders on the computer and they're not overly similar (huge changes happened that I never managed to repost, and I like the changes

    It's about 50/50 stuff I saw in other's ideas that were cool and mixed together with OTHER people's stuff + stuff I just made up based on what I saw and/or changed the original things by other people.

    Same deal again.

    ^by that I mean, not necessarily 'remakes' but taking what awesome stuff people do, and seeing how all the awesome fits together to be awesome again

    What do with all that? It's a lot... Reviews would be sweet (didn't happen last time) and I don't think they're really 'review-able' if they're in a pile that big.

    On top of that, I've even collected (literal copy-paste and write-up for myself about the stuff) things from 100% of every word posted in the Hero Suggestion Forums up to today since the site-rebuild.

    So... more stuff..

    What do?

    haha

    tl;dr My idea is to post 1 'Archive' thread with 100% of the Heroes in it, and 1 'smaller batch' thread that fits a group of heroes together either by lore/affiliation/themes/something for a 'reviewing' section. Either 1-by-1 updating it until they're all there, or just in a clump and people can pick away at it.

    The only thing I took from the old archive was this

    @Dark Mizuki quote - I love how simple and well synergized the abilities of each hero have. Like in-game heroes, these hero ideas have different abilities that will still interlock together without being too complicated on their own (which I'd like to see more from future ideas. Number-wise, they aren't too powerful as well (though leaning on the weak side).

    So I'll buff things a little more than my general idea of what a strong hero is in the 'current' game, and keep it simple
    lul
     
    Haasva and summer-penguin like this.
  3. summer-penguin

    summer-penguin Moderator Staff Member

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    The name could be temporary, @ZizZizZiz1... but I met the name w/ The Witcher, yeah.
    Thou there's no thematic relation between Witcher's Ciri and this sorceress.
     
  4. summer-penguin

    summer-penguin Moderator Staff Member

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    Any oldschool mid players here?
    @Wrooks? @Eli_Green? @ZizZizZiz1? @FightFightFight? @MrFrank? @dewouter? @Jon? @Klagger? @God of Death? @D' Eradicated? @Skulls_n_Souls? @Dehua_Darbuya? @Dark Mizuki? @carlvic? @Beary? @Ryugo? @Blamagenkind? @Dark Rogue? @Centauren? @wannaeatroshan? @HHHNNNGGG?

    Any of those QoP, Puck, oldschool Lesh, SF, SS, Tinker, Zet or Ember type of mid players in here?

    If you're an oldschool mid player, you owe me a review. When my newest hero suggestion comes around, I'll collect that.

    [​IMG]
     
    Dark Mizuki likes this.
  5. ZizZizZiz1

    ZizZizZiz1 Member

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    i love playing mid on nearly any hero i can, id be glad to give you tips on making a good mid hero, just message me
     
    summer-penguin likes this.
  6. carlvic

    carlvic Moderator Staff Member

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    I play in SEA server. Everybody uses any hero to play mid.

    Also I'll put what @1Frame_Dynamism said into mind.

    Also, also ducks:
    [​IMG]
    Inspired by party magicians and fake smiles. Almost done. But I am really not satisfied with what she offers. All she can do right now is make a balloon snake.
    I wanted to submit this hero before, but yeah. The ideas were really blergh.



    [​IMG]
    Inspired after I watched Yojimbo. Two of his skills are already done, so at least he has that going on for him.
    Will mostly be a Xin-esque style hero. But after putting much thought to it, I'll give him a more unique set of skills.

    Also Hoang's making a comeback.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017 at 8:54 AM
    summer-penguin likes this.
  7. Dark Mizuki

    Dark Mizuki Member

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    I love it how you sell your hero. Well, may the essence of creativity lead you to create that amazing hero idea.

    PS: I'll go ahead and comment on that, too, @1Frame_Dynamism, though it'll come much later when I could take the time to make that juicy reply.
     
    summer-penguin likes this.
  8. summer-penguin

    summer-penguin Moderator Staff Member

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    carl...
    That Mifune really got me... [​IMG]

    And how about you Miz... Nothing new in sight?
     
  9. carlvic

    carlvic Moderator Staff Member

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    Ugh, this guy. I have heard stories about Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It's not pretty.
     
    Haasva likes this.
  10. summer-penguin

    summer-penguin Moderator Staff Member

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    What? Who?
    No.. No.. haha, that's a meme, carl.
    Sort of want? No?
    Mifune got me curious, that's all, that's what it meant.

    What's a Yojimbo?
     
  11. carlvic

    carlvic Moderator Staff Member

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    Bodyguard. :)

    And I know it's a meme.
     
  12. Dark Mizuki

    Dark Mizuki Member

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    I have a few drafts, and I'm currently looking at my jungling hero (as mentioned previously). He'll not use summons to scour the jungle, his methods are definitely something new and familiar at the same time.
     
  13. Haasva

    Haasva Member

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    First time I come to this thread. Seems good to stay^^
    Btw very nice background story, @summer-penguin . The invoker reference was really unpected, and it went so well with the rest of the story. I was delighted.
     
  14. carlvic

    carlvic Moderator Staff Member

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  15. Dark Mizuki

    Dark Mizuki Member

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    I have a few drafts, and I'm currently looking at my jungling hero (as mentioned previously). He'll not use summons to scour the jungle, his methods are definitely something new and familiar at the same time.
     
  16. carlvic

    carlvic Moderator Staff Member

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    Double posting in your spare time eh?
     
  17. Dark Mizuki

    Dark Mizuki Member

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    I have a few drafts, and I'm currently looking at my jungling hero (as mentioned previously). He'll not use summons to scour the jungle, his methods are definitely something new and familiar at the same time.


    @carlvic I'm catching up on my shit post count. I find this stealthy trick to my liking.

    Seriously, I opened two tabs and they kept the same content, how magical. I thought I never posted it.