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Dota 7.18 - Post qualifier rebalance patch

Discussion in 'Dota Chat' started by Lama051, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @ThunderTF2
    True, but Arc Lightning is good enough to mow down big waves later in the game, unlike supports without AoE abilities who struggle to defend the base later from just the creeps.

    The point of Zeus support is not because he has decent nuke power and de-ward skills, they are decent but any support have some strength and weaknesses. The thing is - Zeus will have global presence from one point onward with a lot of utility.
    No one can fight under Nimbus with the enemy core, despite Nimbus being casted from support Zeus or core Zeus.
    That damage, detection and stun are still there.
    And the ability to use it, while being in safe location is what makes him good support.

    Nearly the same stuff is what makes Silencer good support, despite his ultimate being on ridiculously long cooldown, being negated by dispel and other weaknesses the hero has on it's own.
    It's hard to kill him before he use his global silence - he can use it from his fountain.

    I'm not scared of over-farmed Crystal Maiden, her spells are good and all, but a core can just two shot her if she wish to use them - fuck her. Global presence is something which supports love, they are safe, far away and still manage to impact it in some way.
     
  2. ThunderTF2

    ThunderTF2 Member

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    Zeus isnt a hero that would defend base lategame (with or without megas)
    DW or CM with Mjolnir and ASPD talent - easily.

    Zeus can prolong pushes by outputing high dmg direct nukes with area hp % decay, he can easily clear JUST creeps, but cannot deal with a zerg rush kind of pushes (Lycan necro3+domi + offlaner with pipe crimson)

    My point is

    If you have coming problem of you being de-throned in 20 mins by Brood \ Lycan \ NP \ LD pushs, even if your laning went okayish, enemies would still go from 1 tower to another.
    You can try to burst main enemy pushers, but against in such situations you are always ahead in lvls (lvls = dmg and outpush potential) and items (saves and damage), so you cannot really put up a fight.

    If your team is behind and was weaker (by draft) at the start
    You pretty much shouldnt pick Zeus. He wouldnt stop power pushes and couldnt save himself or his allies from strong gankers.

    If your team behind (failed, was unlucky, etc), but your draft is stronger.
    Ugh, then you still have chances, but if your draft stronger = you shouldnt have any problems against enemy draft = Zeus wasnt needed at all.
    Zeus provides only long range magic damage (early on), theres a lot more heroes that is stronger that Zeus earlier that make your team suffer too much from few mistakes.

    If you are ahead with Zeus?
    You pretty much won? Depends on what kind of draft you have.
     
  3. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @ThunderTF2:
    I'm not talking about Mega Creeps, just regular late-game wave usually consist of 5-6 ranged creeps, 2 catapults and plenty of melee. This alone is more then any hero without any AoE spells (or low damage, like Witch Doctor) can hold on his own.

    This means that if you are pushing and have to defend your base just from creeps, the support can hold them and you have to commit whole core hero for this, inevitably delaying the push and wasting the opportunity, while Zeus and any support with AoE clearing abilities can teleport and do it himself.
    So while the spell itself is not as strong and impactful for the early game, outside of being used to trigger his Static Field, it's still quite nice for the later part, when he has to clear as fast as possible creeps.


    But my point is - Zeus as a support has few tools in him that are nice to have, especially when facing pesky invisible heroes.
    Then, into the late game he is clearly head and shoulders above nearly all other supports when paired with some split-pushing or 'hunter' kind of core who is always alone. Being able to support him with global range is very valuable in my books.

    P.S.:
    Any dedicated support buying Mjollnir is always a bad move, even if it have an effect - being forced to spend so much gold on something like this means your game is already lost.
     
    ThunderTF2 likes this.
  4. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    But Thundergod's Wrath has kinda high CD. Also, if enemy is invisible, or used Pipe of Insight/HoD, their blink wont be broken.

    ES was OP because he had fast long-range stun+blink very early, and without any investments. Zeus has to spend 4200 gold on ASU to have Nimbus.
     
  5. ThunderTF2

    ThunderTF2 Member

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    Well, you are right, at some points.

    Anyways - its all situational things.
    Not every hero would have magic shiled, smoke or invisibility to prevent blink cancel from ult, reciving it later would have no use if followed by Nimbus.

    Also i talked about both TGW and Nimbus and its combo on support Zeus.


    without any investment = boots.
    Anywats, my point was - Zeus is OP and should be balanced to be weaker (ES is fine currently and i would like to have them both equally good, but situational.