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Does blodstone increase final mana regen or base mana regen?

Discussion in 'Advanced Mechanics' started by mapdesigner, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    Hello,

    Does bloodstone mana regen increase the base regen or the final regen?

    The wiki says
    Mana Regeneration = (Base + Sum of Flat Bonuses) * (1 + intelligence * 0.02)

    If it increase the final then we should edit the equation

    Same question applies for headress vladimar aura and guardian greives.
     
  2. Blamagenkind

    Blamagenkind Member

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  3. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    but I thought blood stone is special case that it only adds flat bonus afterwards (otherwise Bloodstone and arcana aura and ring of akila and vlad will be so imba)
     
  4. serifus

    serifus New Member

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    If you already have like +10 mana or whatever from Bloodstone then +0.65 from Vlads isn't going to do much.
     
  5. Blamagenkind

    Blamagenkind Member

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    Go to 'regeneration formula' in the link and read up https://www.dota2.com/duelingfates

    Bloodstone's bonus mana regen from its charges has always been flat but it also has a base regen which is percent-based. Now it only gives flat regen. In the patch notes, it is clear that ALL regen items/abilities now give only flat regen instead of percentage based. BUT str & int now amplify the regen gained from items & abilities, this includes clarities, bottles, etc. Most items & abilities that gave regen had their values changed to make the regen almost the same as the old.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  6. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    Almost, but not the same. Some items were significantly buffed, for example, Eul and BF received 2.25 mana regen, which is equal to 225% "old mana regen", despite they had 150% "old mana regen" before. Urn, reindrops and various manaregen auras were significantly buffed as well.
    On other hand, Bloodstone was drastically nerfed. It not just lost its ability to heal allies on death, but also doesnt include Soul Ring (a great starter item) and new 0.4 mana regen will be equal to "old 1 mana regen" when you have +150% mana regen from int (or 75+ int), so for heroes like Timber, it will be worse until endgame.
     
  7. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    Thanks for tha calcs.

    75 int doesnt seem too hard to reach with couple of int items. Maybe tinker doesnt get any im not sure, but it would be better for storm surely.
     
  8. effreit89

    effreit89 Member

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    So.. what now is the best mana regen source item?
     
  9. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    I think oc or vyse
     
  10. effreit89

    effreit89 Member

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    ^ So you mean to say BS sucks at its only job?? the hell.. -_-
     
  11. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    not sure I havent calculated exactly how it would compare to vyse or OC. Will do tonight. it would surely depend on Current INT, but generally for heroes who no INT, then INT items are so good at mana regen.
     
  12. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    So Lets Say there is a Hero with 100 INT and the following regeneration = (0.9 + 2.25 X 4 +1.4 =11.3 ) (from storm base regen + vyse + orchid + Euls + linkens all with 2.25)

    and from INT he will have 200% bonus a total of 300%

    therefore, his final regen will be

    11.3 X 3 = 33.9 Mana regen. Now lets consider adding either shivas guard or blood stone to the item build, who will be better?

    Shivas will improve regen by 60%, increasing by a total of
    0.6 X 11.3 = 6.78 mana regen Bonus, so the final will be
    40.68 mana

    if he had Blood stone instead, with say 0 10 or 20 charges, here will be the mana regen bonus each time:

    at 0 charges, regen will increase by 2 X 3 = 6

    at 10 Charges, regen will increase by (2 + 3.5) X 3 = 16.5 regen bonus

    at 20 charges, regen will increase by (2 + 7) X 3 = 27 regen bonus

    so it would still be much better. but now if we consider a hero with much lower INT, benifit of shivas for that hero will be more than storm benifit.

    Now the question still remains that: how different was it in the past? so lets see: umm wait how much did each INT point give?

    Alright, so I just found out that each INT point previously granted 0.04 mana regen.

    So, again, Lets Say there is a Hero with 100 INT and the following regeneration = ( 150%X 4 = 600% ) (from storm base regen + vyse + orchid + Euls + linkens all with 2.25)

    and from INT he will have (0.01 + 0.04X100) = 4.01

    therefore, his final regen will be

    4.01 X 6 = 24.06 Mana regen. Now lets consider adding either shivas guard or blood stone to the item build, who will be better?

    Shivas will improve regen by 60%, increasing by a total of
    1.23 X 6 = 7.38 mana regen Bonus, so the final will be
    31.44 mana

    if he had Blood stone instead, with say 0 10 or 20 charges, here will be the mana regen bonus each time:

    at 0 charges, regen will increase by 4.01 X 2 = 8.02

    at 10 Charges, regen will increase by 4.01X2 + 10 = 18.02regen bonus

    at 20 charges, regen will increase by = 28.02 regen bonus

    so blood stone was better eitherway.

    Alright, lets start all over. Lets say we have storm with the following:

    CM aura + orchid + Eul + linken and with 100 INT. Now is it better to buy Vyse or Blood stone is what we are going to assess.

    Mana regen = (0.9 + 2.25 X 3 + 1.4 = 9.05) from CM + base + items
    and from 100 INT will give total of 300% this regen, so storm regen is going to be 3X9.05 = 27.15 mana

    3.7 X 11.30 = 41.81

    so total bonus of 14.66 Mana

    but if he bought blood stone instead?
    at 0 charges, regen will increase by 2 X 3 = 6

    at 14 Charges, regen will increase by (2 + 4.9) X 3 = 20.7 regen bonus

    at 20 charges, regen will increase by (2 + 7) X 3 = 27 regen bonus

    so blood stone isnt really much better when its first bought.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  13. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    Bloodstone is a flat manaregen bonus, which is added in the following formula under green
    It is just a bonus you add it to that formula. Plain and simple. Raw mana increase per second mechanics are not taken into the formula as they are a separate source which may even tick at different intervals like Mana Drain. I am very unsure how Regeneration rune and fountain regen work right now, but AFAIK it is still worth it to drop int items for faster mana regen.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Flat regen bonus 49,1 is a magical number from which onward gaining one point of int increases your mana regen more than one point of flat magical regen bonus. That is insane amount of regen bonus which can realistically be achieved only by Necro with some crazy deathpulse stacks and bloodstone.

    Increasing flat regen count by 1 is a great boost to your mana regen regardless of your flat regen bonus. On 50 int each point of flat regen bonus increases your mana regeneration by 2, on 100 in 3 and so forth.
    Wheter it is worth it to buy 6 perseverances and walk with clarity potion rather than having actual items is another question entirely.