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Brood is a mix of expensive items but why is she not getting any attention?

Discussion in 'Meta-Game Discussion' started by invul_nerable, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    That is why in the competitive environment, you ban his hard counters. My concerns is mostly about competitive Brood. As for my experience, ES even with Blink cant kill you immediately if you know what your are doing(like not pushing with the spiders? Especially if he is missing). However, it is true that they might get a lot of gold if clump up all the spiders which is not easily preventable.
     
  2. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @invul_nerable:
    You cannot ban every counter to Brood, there are too many of them.

    Brood is only viable as 5th pick, when there are no counters in the enemy pool.
    A single hero is enough to shut down Brood from level 1, so you don't want to make him face that.

    He is easy to play around with other heroes, but not as much as those who specifically counters him.

    In the late-game a lot more heroes can deal with him in comparison to the early game, where their nukes cannot kill him or clear his army instantly, but because he actually cannot shut down every hero on the map even in favorable game, it's easy to stop him once specific hero hit crucial level.
     
  3. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    There are heroes that partially counter her(AoE heroes), and heroes that hard counters her(Axe, Sven, LC, ES) that is in the meta. Considering those heroes are meta heroes, you can ban them or pick em and safely, the enemy won't usually be expecting a brood strategy because of how bad you say she is, so it might work as a pocket strategy.

    I think a lot of heroes can modify his spiders. Heroes that can increase either the damage or the survivability of his spiders. A hero that is a fast pusher as well as summon modifier is golden. Prime example is Lycan.

    Others worth mentioning are:
    Drow
    Rubick
    Sven
    Beastmaster
    Aura heroes
    Aura item carrying heroes
    Ones that buy Necronomicon
    etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  4. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    You can't ban 75 heroes.
     
  5. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    Why would they ban her sustenance early on?
     
  6. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @invul_nerable:
    As hard counters I count at least 6-8 heroes, then as partial counters additional 6-8 heroes and as you mentioned any hero with AoE clearing ability can help against her, not enough bans.

    More so Spirit Breaker is quite strong against her in all stages, charging and carrying dusts usually means death Broodmother and he is not phased by the quantity of her brood at all.
    Poorman's shield help a lot of heroes to be able to ignore for a long time her army if they have the tools to dispose of the hero in that time.
     
  7. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    Aint SB strong against all heroes especially early? However, assessment kind of true, but I think she can still escape through treeline though, and with BKB, he cant really manfight brood, but he can however escape brood which is annoying wasting BKB charges. Brood is still a good last pick vs him. To be honest, I think SB as well should be picked more at the competitive scene too, a simple smoke and he can gank all to the otherside of the map undetected, he is a very efficient roamer and dive towers early on, he is more like NS only with stuns. Current meta pos 4 should fit him right.
     
  8. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @invul_nerable:
    Yes, Breaker is really strong early game, but some heroes are not so worried about him and their play-style is not so dependent on snow-balling from the very early game.

    Brood cannot escape easily, you want to be close to the creeps with her to gain experience and gold - dominate the lane.
    It's not easy to predict when you are charged and once hit there is no phased movement, carrying dusts counters invisibility and strong early game means constant threat of dying to him and his teammates in the early game, no matter how good you are.

    Also, his charge weakens the whole brood significantly and his focus and constant bashes disrupt bite and ultimate, on top of being fragile overall. BKB is not an easy answer, because I'm talking about straight from level 1 here. At all stages he alone is fine against Brood, but he can pressure you very hard. I would not pick Brood against SB at all.
     
  9. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    Just showing up to last hit the creeps with 1st skill or right click will make charging hard. It would also be hard for SB to even click on the hero because 1)she got spiders around her and her hitbox is not that big, so I think you are prone to misclick charge and 2) you can just shoot the spiders on everywhere else where you put your web/adds unpredictable nature of brood when laning. But as you said, if he does managed to charge brood, spiderqueen is dead especially with dust. Anyway. SB is not really pick in competitive(even if he should be picked more) so I dont think you'd see him in competitive. All the more reason to pick brood.
     
  10. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    List of heroes currently used competitively that shit on Brood:

    Axe, BB, Clockwerk, Earth Spirit, Earthshaker, Kunkka, LC, NS, Sand King, Slardar, Sven, Timbersaw, Tusk, BH, Ember Spirit, Void, Juggernaut, Meepo, Nyx, Razor, Riki, Batrider, Dark Seer, Disruptor, Enigma, KotL, Invoker, Lina, Puck, Storm, Zeus

    And any #5 support that can enable these heroes such as:

    Lion, WD, Rubick, SD, CM, Shadow Shaman
     
  11. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    fixed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  12. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    Every reply to me only makes me more sure you're 3k and have no clue what you're talking about.
     
  13. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    Most of the heroes you put there doesnt counter her especially at the peak of her power. Laning stage. Others are soft counters.
     
  14. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    It was only a matter of time before you said something irrecoverably stupid, and this is it.

    Next time in Meta-Game Discussions, Medusa is unbeatable because nobody can counter her at her peak.
     
  15. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    That is the thing, if you cant counter her at her peak, then there is no stopping her team to end the game mid game unless of course you managed to extend it lategame.

    I did left something on the counters didn't I? Dusa can still be countered early game, Brood is the inverse. She is early game dominance incarnate, if you cant counter her early game, you are to guaranteed to lose 2 towers at top or bottom. We all know she is countered late game so why write down heroes when you can just put countered by lategame
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  16. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    No she is not. Stop lying to yourself.
     
  17. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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    I stopped lying to myself when I started to accept that.
     
  18. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    Not only have I explained it, you have too, so you can't even agree with your own points.

    If you're a hero that needs to sit in the fucking trees for the first couple minutes of the game to leech experience and stand a chance in the future, you are not dominating the lane. God forbid the enemy team has two supports with any sort of gap close or decent slow or stun level one because you will be completely shut out of the game against strong support duos. There are offlaners who can literally out trade 2+ heroes from level 1, something a Brood can't even fucking dream of doing with her 40 base damage. You don't start at level 5, you don't start with BKB, you don't start with orchid, you don't start with good stats, you aren't dominating anything.

    Sorry to say but you simply do not have good enough knowledge of this game to be making the claims that you're making.

    Brood can be a good hero, in very very specific situations, and even then she is just an annoyance and can be dealt with. Outside of that she is garbage. Her pick rate competitively proves this.

    Inb4 some kind of variation of "pros are dumb" argument.
     
  19. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @Blarrg:
    But professional players (most of them) are really dumb.
    They have skills and a lot of experience - that's the reason they are not picking Brood (or their captain, coach or analyzer tell them not to pick it).

    I respect very few of the competitive players for their understanding of the game and knowledge, most of them are just mechanically good and understand the small picture which is nice, but not impressive.
     
  20. Blarrg

    Blarrg Member

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    Pro players are definitely not dumb. They are constantly playing high level pubs and testing different heroes. They do this in scrims too, the reason you think they are dumb is because you only watch competitive games, where they've already figured out what is good for the most part.

    Universe is a prime example, he actually picks brood relatively frequently in pubs (with 80% winrate) but EG never pick it competitively, hmmm I wonder why?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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