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BM vs abyssal test

Discussion in 'Advanced Mechanics' started by mapdesigner, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    Aug 11, 2011
    Hey

    Just tested. Abyssal blocks the return damage of blade mail. BM does not just return physical damage, it more like returns a right click.

    Does abyssal also block damage from cleave return? When sven have abyssal, does he take less damage from cleave? or is it not affected?

    Plus: it was a bit hard to test. I created invoker hero, but he keeps moving away. I had to blink him into trees to get him stuck and right click me. Do you know whats going on? I cant test it for sven like this D:
     
  2. EebstertheGreat

    EebstertheGreat Forum Manager Staff Member

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    Stout Shield and related items do not block Cleave. I don't know why they're blocking damage returned by Blademail. Have you tested if damage returned from a physical spell will be blocked? (For instance, Slarder with Stout Shield uses Slithereen Crush on a target with Blademail.)
     
  3. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    It used to be blocked. However, at some certain patch it has been specifically staed that BB, dazzle poison are no longer blocked by sheilds
     
  4. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    Cleaved damage is actually blocked. I guess vanguard is better than AC now.

    Also, the returning cleave damage is reduced by both vanguard and by armor value
     
  5. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    ok, done the test

    [11:37.91] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 30 damage (1019->989).
    [11:37.91] Sven hits Invoker for 33 damage (1190->1157).
    [11:39.35] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 30 damage (991->961).
    [11:39.35] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 30 damage (980->950).
    [11:39.35] Sven hits Invoker for 33 damage (1180->1147).
    [11:40.75] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 29 damage (962->933).
    [11:40.75] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 30 damage (951->921).
    [11:40.75] Sven hits Invoker for 32 damage (1169->1137).
    [11:41.15] Bloodseeker casts ability Bloodrage on Sven.
    [11:41.15] Sven receives Bloodrage buff from Bloodseeker.
    [11:42.15] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 42 damage (934->892).
    [11:42.15] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 43 damage (923->880).
    [11:42.15] Sven hits Invoker for 46 damage (1159->1113).
    [11:43.54] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 42 damage (894->852).
    [11:43.54] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 43 damage (881->838).
    [11:43.54] Sven hits Invoker for 46 damage (1136->1090).
    [11:44.94] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 42 damage (853->811).
    [11:44.94] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 43 damage (840->797).
    [11:44.94] Sven hits Invoker for 46 damage (1112->1066).
    [11:46.38] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 41 damage (813->772).
    [11:46.38] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 42 damage (798->756).
    [11:46.38] Sven hits Invoker for 45 damage (1088->1043).
    [11:47.78] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 42 damage (773->731).
    [11:47.78] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 43 damage (758->715).
    [11:47.78] Sven hits Invoker for 46 damage (1065->1019).

    Result: BS ragge amplify damage once in both ways if cast on the attacking hero. but if cast on BM user, then it only amplify on the target.


    [14:38.07] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 30 damage (943->913).
    [14:38.07] Sven hits Invoker for 33 damage (1190->1157).
    [14:39.50] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 42 damage (915->873).
    [14:39.50] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 30 damage (915->885).
    [14:39.50] Sven hits Invoker for 33 damage (1180->1147).
    [14:40.90] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 41 damage (874->833).
    [14:40.90] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 30 damage (887->857).
    [14:40.90] Sven hits Invoker for 32 damage (1169->1137).
    [14:42.30] Invoker receives Lesser Maim debuff from Sven.
    [14:42.30] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 41 damage (834->793).
    [14:42.30] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 30 damage (858->828).
    [14:42.30] Sven hits Invoker for 32 damage (1159->1127).
    [14:43.70] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 42 damage (794->752).
    [14:43.70] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 31 damage (830->799).
    [14:43.70] Sven hits Invoker for 33 damage (1150->1117).
    [14:45.10] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 42 damage (753->711).
    [14:45.10] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 31 damage (801->770).
    [14:45.10] Sven hits Invoker for 33 damage (1139->1106).
    [14:46.33] Invoker loses Lesser Maim debuff.
    [14:46.53] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 41 damage (713->672).
    [14:46.53] Legion Commander hits Sven with Blade Mail for 30 damage (771->741).
    [14:46.53] Sven hits Invoker for 32 damage (1129->1097).
    [14:47.93] Sven hits Legion Commander with Great Cleave for 41 damage (673->632).
    [14:47.93] Sven hits Invoker for 32 damage (1119->1087).
     
  6. EebstertheGreat

    EebstertheGreat Forum Manager Staff Member

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    IDK what Bloodrage has to do with it.

    I know that Stout is not supposed to block physical damage from spells. My question was if it blocked physical damage returned by Blademail originally dealt by spells or only physical damage returned by Blademail originally dealt by physical attacks.
     
  7. mapdesigner

    mapdesigner Member

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    Nothing really, I just wanted to test BM interactions xD

    one sec ill test for Quill spray + tide hunter + dazzle


    [08:53.29] Tidehunter hits Elder Titan with Anchor Smash for 46 damage (1149->1103).
    [08:53.29] Elder Titan hits Tidehunter with Blade Mail for 76 damage (79->3).
    [08:54.05] Tidehunter hits Elder Titan with Anchor Smash for 46 damage (1116->1070).
    [08:54.05] Elder Titan hits Tidehunter with Blade Mail for 76 damage.
    _____________________________________________________________________________
    [05:58.33] Tidehunter hits Elder Titan with Anchor Smash for 46 damage (1252->1206).
    [05:58.33] Elder Titan hits Tidehunter with Blade Mail for 35 damage (933->898).
    [05:58.53] Elder Titan uses Blade Mail.
    [05:59.10] Tidehunter hits Elder Titan with Anchor Smash for 46 damage (1218->1172).
    [05:59.10] Elder Titan hits Tidehunter with Blade Mail for 35 damage (911->876).
    [06:00.63] Elder Titan uses Blade Mail.
    [06:00.63] Tidehunter hits Elder Titan with Anchor Smash for 46 damage (1149->1103).
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    [12:25.93] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 12 damage (1390->1378).
    [12:25.93] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 20 damage (680->660).
    [12:26.17] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 31 damage (1383->1352).
    [12:26.17] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 51 damage (660->609).
    [12:26.57] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 49 damage (1358->1309).
    [12:26.57] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 81 damage (608->527).
    [12:26.93] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 68 damage (1313->1245).
    [12:26.93] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 112 damage (527->415).
    [12:27.33] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 87 damage (1250->1163).
    [12:27.33] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 143 damage (415->272).
    [12:27.67] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 106 damage (1170->1064).
    [12:27.67] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 173 damage (271->98).
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    [12:52.29] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 12 damage (1390->1378).
    [12:52.49] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 31 damage (1380->1349).
    [12:52.49] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 10 damage (1130->1120).
    [12:52.83] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 49 damage (1353->1304).
    [12:52.83] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 40 damage (1124->1084).
    [12:52.99] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 68 damage (1307->1239).
    [12:52.99] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 71 damage (1086->1015).
    [12:53.23] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 87 damage (1242->1155).
    [12:53.23] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 102 damage (1019->917).
    [12:53.39] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 106 damage (1158->1052).
    [12:53.39] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 133 damage (920->787).
    [12:53.59] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 124 damage (1054->930).
    [12:53.59] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 163 damage (789->626).
    [12:53.76] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 143 damage (933->790).
    [12:53.76] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 194 damage (628->434).
    [12:54.43] Bristleback hits Elder Titan with Quill Spray for 162 damage (800->638).
    [12:54.43] Elder Titan hits Bristleback with Blade Mail for 225 damage (445->220).

    5:13.06] Elder Titan uses Blade Mail.
    [15:13.19] Dazzle hits Elder Titan with Poison Touch for 8 damage (1389->1381).
    [15:13.23] Elder Titan uses Blade Mail.
    [15:13.43] Elder Titan uses Blade Mail.
    [15:13.59] Elder Titan uses Blade Mail.
    [15:13.79] Elder Titan uses Blade Mail.
    [15:13.96] Elder Titan uses Blade Mail.
    [15:14.16] Elder Titan uses Blade Mail.
    [15:14.23] Dazzle hits Elder Titan with Poison Touch for 8 damage (1389->1381).
    [15:14.53] Elder Titan uses Blade Mail.

    It does block all reflections of these abilities. So basically blade mail return damage is like a right click?
     
  8. duble_dragon

    duble_dragon Member

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    I would assume this is more of a bug because the spells themselves are not supposed to be reduced by damage block. The only physical spell that ideally should be blocked is weaver's The Swarm.
     
  9. EebstertheGreat

    EebstertheGreat Forum Manager Staff Member

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    Yeah I would definitely call it a bug. It's not that it's "like a right click", it's just that it improperly is reduced by damage block. Note that as duble_dragon said, The Swarm is also reduced by damage block, but this is considered appropriate due to the spell's appearance and lore. But The Swarm isn't actually an attack of any kind.