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Blademail is broken

Discussion in 'Meta-Game Discussion' started by LordLJenkins, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. LordLJenkins

    LordLJenkins Member

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    The introduction of CDR and spell lifesteal talents make Blademail very broken. Spell lifesteal makes heroes either very tanky or unkillable depending on the lifesteal percentage when activating Blademail, and Blademail has a fucking broken 4.5s duration. CDR greatly reduces Blademail downtime, making it almost always available on some heroes.

    I think Blademail should be nerfed. The concept is powerful enough, it's the core item of Axe and Legion, and synergizes greatly with CDR and spell lifesteal. Its number should be low.
     
  2. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    I'd say it's too strong on heroes like Axe and Legion and maybe QOP, and perfectly fine on everybody else.
     
    Redeemed A.I. likes this.
  3. terrorbringer

    terrorbringer Member

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    They should reverse that physical dmg return even if there is a BKB.
     
  4. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    Blade Mail shouldnt be amplified by your spells amplification, and your spell lifesteal shouldnt work for its damage either. IT's the only thing that needs fixing.
     
    Haasva and Randy7777 like this.
  5. Dr_JP

    Dr_JP Member

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    Completely correct!

    Exceptions must exist sometimes, no rule can be perfect.
     
  6. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    Wait... How does Blademail synergize with spell lifesteal in the first place? Is there something amazing about it that I missed?
     
  7. BloodRampage-

    BloodRampage- Member

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    blademail reflects any damage done back to the source, and the source of that reflected damage is... the blademail user, who can lifesteal off or amplify that reflected damage
     
  8. Kuyrai

    Kuyrai Member

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    I hate it's synergy with axe. There is almost no way whatsoever to counter blademail axe.

    At the very least, stop the damage going through bkb.
     
  9. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    The problem is, Blade Mail reflects enemy damage, and that damage was already amplified by his spell amplification. Aplifying it once more makes "double-dip" scaling, detrimental to balance.
    There is a reason, why Bloodrage doesnt NOT work for blade mail (despite working for any damage nominally). Using Blood Rage on enemy would make him deal 40% more damage, which them would be reflected and amplified by another 40%, resulting in absurd reflected damage taken.
    Same could be said for spell lifesteal. Using BM with 25% spell lifesteal makes you take 25% less damage. A QoP with Octarine will take 95% less damage. Essentially, she will have an invulnerability for 4 sec with 12 sec cd. That's too cheesy, too powerful, imo. It's just a buggy interaction that needs to be fixed.
    BTW, when you reflect attack damage, you dont lifesteal from it. You dont apply your Desolator, mana break or Skadi effects. So why you should spell steal from reflected damage? It's stupid!

    I think, ANY reflected damage should follow that rule - cant be amplified by any damage modifiers, and you cant lifesteal from it. Spiked Carapace, for example, or Dispersion.
     
  10. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    >implying Spell Damage Amp is a thing

    Uh... 16 Int for 1% damage isn't really a problem... If you are a carry, build more armor or get yourself a lifesteal.

    Blademail is used to reduce the focus on you anyway... Or to draw focuses on you since Blademail is weaker when you are focused.

    Also Bloodrage's damage amplification is a different mechanics from normal Spell Damage Amp...

    I only have problems with Blademail hitting BKB, but since BKB is in a good spot right now, I don't want to buff it.
     
  11. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    So if I have spell lifesteal and if I activate my Blademail when they nuke me, I am technically nuking them back as well and the spell lifesteal does its job again? lmao

    Well that's probably unintended, but I must take advantage of it for as long as it lasts lol

    But yeah it's a given that Volvo will fix this at some point.

    It also sounds kinda incredibly cheesy but it's not that cheesy considering a few things. You can nuke the Blademail user while you activate BKB and you won't get any magical damage you did returned back to you. Also for QoP in particular she gets her amazing spell lifesteal at 25, and before this, her Blademail won't save her that much.

    Also this whole gimmick basically relies on you or your teammates nuking the Blademail user. If you use physical attacks instead, he/she can still return damage but not lifesteal off that.
    So basically this means you can still use some instant damage nukes like Dagon or Lina/Lion ultis when the guy doesn't have Blademail active (a Lion could easily start his whole combo with Hex for basically no risk at all since Hex itself doesn't do any damage) and basically as long as you don't use DOT nukes eg Veno or Viper or Alche's Radiance + Acid combo etc or you just don't use instant nukes when that Blademail is active this gimmick is gonna be useless.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  12. FightFightFight

    FightFightFight Member

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    it's broken not because of Spell Lifesteal or the cooldown value, the only reason is returning damage before reductions which is complete bullshit. too bad that's what folks were asking for so i have no idea what to do now
     
  13. Leadblast

    Leadblast Member

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    Well, for one Blademail itself is a bit TOO strong. It should return damage AFTER reductions, not BEFORE them. I believe the interaction with spell lifesteal will eventually be fixed.
     
  14. Mano

    Mano Member

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    This is probably classic lazy valve coder. Anything that is not right click damage get amplified by spell amp just like luna's glaive used to be and thus it will spell lifesteal.
     
  15. xXinvoker420Xx

    xXinvoker420Xx Member

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    the counter to axe is late game, after 20 mins he falls off like a brick
     
  16. LordLJenkins

    LordLJenkins Member

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    No. He gets what Magnus and Enigma gets for a hell cooldown, with just a little less AOE.
     
  17. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    It WAS "not a thing", when your only sources of spell amplification were int and Arcane lens (5%).
    Now, certain heroes have significant bonuses to spell amplification. Ember Spirit has 15%. Chen has 25%, for example.
     
  18. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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  19. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    He is int hero, after all.. Why not?
     
    slipkwar likes this.
  20. Kuyrai

    Kuyrai Member

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    What?

    As long as carries scale, so will axe. His skillset is the perfect anticarry set. I've seen trolls warlords with lifesteal and 3.5k hp lose half their hp in a single call.