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[Batrider]Guide to Support Batrider (Advanced Guide) 6k-8.5k MMR

Discussion in 'Guides' started by Elendilli, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. Elendilli

    Elendilli New Member

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    Feb 17, 2012


    This guide does not teach basic aspects of the game and already assumes you already have prior knowledge to essentially everything basic (How every Hero works for example), but I'll try my best to explain it word for word so that everyone can understand.

    The guide is done in video format. I made it two months ago but wasn't very successful in spreading the video because I'm not very good with publicity. I would simply like more people to understand that support Batrider is strong and by no means a silly meme.

    The reason why VG.Fy is featured in the video as the Razor is because the video was made during his stay in North America for TI6. 747 (Slark), Boris (Dark Seer) and many other NA players are also featured in the video. The games were played on one of my smurf accounts and is relatively high rated 6k+.

    MMR'S Support Batrider Played in: 6k-8.5k (cuz 747 was beyond 8k at that point).

    Dotabuff: http://www.dotabuff.com/players/123992504/matches?date=all&hero=batrider&timezone=Etc/UTC
    Few games were played as offlane Bat for whatever reason, but overall I'd guess 95% of them are Support Batrider.
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    Wall of Text if you want specific understanding beyond the video.
    Facts or details that are not specifically mentioned in the video:

    (1) Zone Potential. Support Batrider is probably the most powerful zoner in the game. Solo offlane Heroes do not stand a chance, not even a Timbersaw or a Void. In fact, Timbersaw is food for a support Batrider because most of the time a lot of players believe they can get away with or trade hits with a Batrider to sap some experience. Big mistake on their part because if you accumulate enough stacks and leech some lane experience to become level 2, you can tower dive and kill the Timbersaw who should still be level 1, sometimes 2 (depends on if your carry is keeping lane static and not pushing it).

    Timbersaw will not get a single cs or get close enough to the creep wave for experience (unless its close to his tower of course). He will be forced to jungle which is a win for your carry, and a win for yourself because after that you can just farm the jungle that you've gradually stacked for a few minutes.

    (2) Early Ward Prevention and zoning options. It's important to leave extremely early and body block to ensure your big camp isn't blocked. It's not the end of the world if it is, but it's just annoying to spend gold that you can buy boots with on sentries. The ideal thing would be for a secondary support (lol) to buy a pair beforehand as a countermeasure, but normally body blocking is enough to discourage them. Again, if it is blocked you have two options:

    1. Continue to zone their offlaner while relying on lane experience. If you choose to do this, both you and their offlaner will get no real progress, but it's worth it because he's a core and you're a support who can catch up in the jungle very quickly.
    2. If the offlaner realises he cannot do anything in the lane and leaves to gank/jungle you can continue to jungle like normal (stack and pull each minute, firefly blah blah). This is the ideal choice because your carry gets a free lane, you're making progress towards your blink dagger and you're getting levels which help immensely when you decide to gank pre-blink.

    (3) Starting Items Discrepancy. Starting items are not the same static ones displayed in the video. They're the ones built often in most situations, but sometimes you need to buy the courier and/or the observer ward. It's overkill to buy the courier, observer wards and sentry wards, but is possible. It slows down your Boots of Speed, but that shouldn't be much of an issue as you just leech level 2 then farm a 2 or 3 stack big camp.

    (4) My team picked a Jungler. Even if your teamate picked a jungle Hero such as.. Legion Commander or Axe etc. Batrider would still be viable because when most offlane players see that there is a potential jungler, they can opt to pick greedy Heroes that can snowball off the lane (ie: Timbersaw, Void). However no matter how broken their Heroes are, if you have a Batrider in the safelane and a proper carry who does not auto attack the lane, but rather keeps the lane static right next to his tower, the Timbersaw, Void or any other offlaner will never be able to get optimal experience. They will attempt to get experience, get Napalm'd, take tons of damage and back off. Essentially, you will give your carry absolute free farm so long as the offlaner is solo. If it's a dual lane with two strong Heroes (both have stuns for example) then you're out of luck if someone on your team picks a jungler, and your carry picks a Hero that has 0 kill potential. If at least one criteria is met you might be able to manage.

    (5) Learning Batrider. If you're wanting to learn how to play Batrider as a support, the offlane guides are more less the same. If you've never played Batrider offlane or don't play it very often, it won't be that difficult to adjust as a support. Technically, you're just tower diving/running at Heroes with Napalm + Firefly with your teamates before level 6. You want to be as aggressive as possible, but not to the point where you die every fight. In the video there was a point where Beastmaster expended his Roar and Anti-Mage his Mana Void to kill me but the result of that was everyone else dying on the enemy team because of how high priority of a target Batrider is. It doesn't matter if Batrider was support or offlane, hes a terror to the enemy team because he can destroy fights and pick off cores with his ultimate.

    Although I say it's support, you're really only placing observer wards and buying sentries/dust if they have invis Heroes or if you find an enemy ward. Since you buy a gem after Blink/Force you can sometimes hold off buying sentries to starve the enemy of vision because you will do that the second you buy a Gem as opposed to spending 200 gold for a chance at guessing wards. And if you don't carry a TP, you're going to miss out on a lot of kills. Batrider is an amazing counter ganker.

    (6) Other Item Choices. Other things to note is Aether Lens is amazing with Blink + Lasso which is why I state it as a core-luxury meaning get it whenever possible after your core items. Shadow Blade is very much the same. Invis + Firefly + Lasso is no different from a smoke gank. Also makes enemies carry detection, sometimes even a Gem that you lost if you died which means another chance to reclaim it.

    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Batrider Checks and Counters

    Riki and Bounty Hunter annoys everyone. Batrider is no exception. They force you to buy sentries and dusts which slows down your basic starting items, and even your blink dagger. They can leech your early stacked jungle experience. Basically, they just make your early game experience shit, but it's not that bad. It's normally no different if you have a secondary support, but then you would have to convince the guy hovering over Legion Commander to play support and that doesn't always work...

    Heroes Batrider is not very good against are a very low pool of Heroes. Omniknight is the bane of ANY ROLE Batrider. His counter aggression is strong. Purify and Repel absolutely wreck Bat and isn't able to make most of the plays he normally would. Having on Omniknight usually encourages 4-5 manning from the other team. In short, counter aggression and 4-5 manning diminish Batrider's kill potential, but in turn gives your team MASSIVE SPACE. There aren't very many but again Omniknight is the best example of counter aggression AND also a 5 manning lineup Hero. An example would be you lasso any target and Omniknight comes from behind and Purify's and Repel's them. Gank over.

    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Guide was made by me Elendilli. I typed this about 3 months ago (July 2016) but it's still relevant to the patch. Feel free to ask questions or if you would like an explanation on something unclear.
    I will post more guides in the future, but I don't have a lot of time these days.

    The idea for making my guides is something intuitive that people don't know about yet as opposed to some 1-time meme guide. The guides I make are meant to help you climb MMR and win actual games.

    edit: spelling & grammar.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
    kaybo999 likes this.
  2. hjtotz

    hjtotz New Member

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    Oct 9, 2016
    Excellent guide with clear concept presentation .

    i once played a support batrider .its viable , Item timing is slower but still manageble , i would say better than most pos 4 heroes due to the fact he can harvest the jungle .

    For true luxurious item . Wouldn't octarine be a good choice ?
    Although its very greedy usually bought very late , it does improve batrider drastically . With quicker stacking of napalm , lower down time for lasso , firefly and dagger . And aoe life stealing trail of fire . Any insight on this ?
     
  3. SamuelVerner

    SamuelVerner New Member

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    Jan 1, 2016
    Omni is only a nuisance early game. After you get a forcestaff, he cant do shit. SD and VS are more annoying all game long.
     
  4. Elendilli

    Elendilli New Member

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    If you can afford an Octarine as a support I would assume it's very late into the game which probably means you will be nearly 6 slotted. You can buy Octarine but only in precise situations such as a heavy split pushing game where you can make actual use of the low cooldown on Firefly to kill waves faster because Batrider doesn't have any other way to split push faster.

    Normally, being forced to split push to the point where you are required to build an Octarine on Bat is incredibly rare, let alone as a support and does not fit its playstyle. Ideally, you want to be running around with high mobility items as a utility support that acts as a secondary offlane Hero because support Batrider is essentially turns into an offlane Batrider as time progresses because both do the exact same thing late game; picking off/grabbing Heroes with lasso into your team. To increase your chances of successfully lassoing a Hero, items like Black King Bar or Linkens Sphere in conjunction with Blink/Force and other items serve as more useful perks compared to Octarine because if you die before you can lasso someone or die attempting to lasso someone, it becomes a pointless item. Octarine thrives on Heroes that can stay alive for long periods of time so they can continue to use their spells progressively. Not to mention, only one Napalm stack is needed to be effective on enemy Heroes because most of the time even if you napalm targets, they will have BKBs or just sit too far back in fights for it to be worth spamming Napalm. In addition, another obvious answer is why spend 5800 gold on Octarine when you can spend it on a Scythe of Vyse or even Refresher to increase your chances to win the next fight?

    tldr; there are better item choices. Only consider if 1) if you don't die very much at all and 2) if you need to split push faster which is pretty much never b/c why should Bat show himself in lane when he can be fogged to scare the shit out of the enemy team?
     
  5. Elendilli

    Elendilli New Member

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    Feb 17, 2012
    Oracle is also apart of the cancel lasso group
     
  6. hjtotz

    hjtotz New Member

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    Oct 9, 2016
    If i remember correctly ,loa and lc too , but their reach is much limited .
     
  7. kaybo999

    kaybo999 New Member

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    Apr 17, 2013
  8. archaichearts

    archaichearts New Member

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    Dec 18, 2015
    fucking demolt always is first