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[ASU] Sniper

Discussion in 'Remakes' started by Equivocal, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    Current sniper agha is just a bad joke so I'll repost my thread from old Playdota. Unfortunately I can't find my thread from PD archives so I'll keep it short here without all the indepth analysis.


    [​IMG]
    Upgrades Take Aim
    Taking hostile action will not reveal your position in fog of war


    In other words it makes so your opponents can't see where you are shooting as long as you are holding aghanim and outside their vision range. Very convenient during night time, has obvious synergy with Shrapnel vision etc.
    Enemies can still see your projectiles, albeit only when those projectiles reach their vision range. Sniper's basic attacks are fairly hard to see in fights without any attack modifiers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    Blamagenkind likes this.
  2. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Member

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  3. flamegod0

    flamegod0 Member

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    I think it is not a bad upgrade, however, cost too much and I am afraid it will stay as a gimmick only.
    Maybe add an extra effect like double the chance for chance based effects (including headshots).
    Or even add another extra 100 range. So we got an even more long range to abuse.
    Still, liked the concept.
     
  4. asokaaso2

    asokaaso2 Member

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    with the word "Take Aim" it should prevent Sniper's movement and removes vision around him in exchange for this + 80% to headshot.
     
  5. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    no scoping is also a form of taking aim

    I don't think it should be a must have upgrade, but a situational flavor aghs would be way better than the current joke scepter.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  6. asokaaso2

    asokaaso2 Member

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    Hmm, but he is called "Sniper" right? and probably the Upgrade is the Scope lol
     
  7. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    You don't necessarily have to aim for 3 hours to have a good aim

    Besides Sniper already has assassinate for your stationary sharpshooter flavor
     
  8. flamegod0

    flamegod0 Member

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    I don't mean the upgrade to be a must have. What I mean is Aghs Upgrade should be a situational item.
    Because nowadays there are still meme level aghs upgrade such as current sniper upgrade, WW, and lifestealer (I know there are more, but these 3 is what comes to my mind right now). I think, to be more acceptable, an Aghs upgrade needs to have a good purpose (which this suggestion have), not a must have (because a hero with aghs as a core is really boring and not good balance wise and also this suggestion is sorta have it), and does justice for it's price (this point that didn't satisfies me for the upgrade).

    For example, for those 4200 gold, you get only undetected attack with 10 in each stats and a point booster. While pike give more mobility, give more range, and also sort of utility on top of it (only about 500 gold more). This is my personal opinion about your upgrade tho, which I think have a very good base concept, but does not have enough OOMPH inside it.
    Maybe you can consider this.
     
  9. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    I think Aghanim power level should be dependant om a few factors
    1. The farm rate of the hero, the less average gpm on the hero the better reward for upgrade
    2. Lack of viable item choises

    Hence crazy must have support aghs like AA, warlock and WD are usually just too good to pass, and it is well justified this way.
    I have no idea why Invoker's agha is so goddamn must have, I guess it is an exception for the rule.

    Sniper farms fast and has plethora of item choises, so his aghs should be a luxury item choise for specific lineups and matchups.
    I think the aghanim has huge potential in vision control lineups with Night stalker, beast master or even KotL aghs. Combo it with blink into trees and your opponents will have a hard time dealing with steady damage output whichs sourse they cannot find. I definitely don't want it to replace his every other item choise. Aghs gives pretty horrible stats for its price, so it is usually enough to scare people from buying it. It is a very different choise from pike, as it doesn't give more real attack range, but it can infact provide even better safety than pike ever could.

    Also the way Icefrog has recently pumped out crappy aghanims is just his way to buff rubick and Alchemist aghanims. Rubick to a lesser extent since there are so many aghanims which upgrade passives nowdays.
     
  10. flamegod0

    flamegod0 Member

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    Just to point out that enemies can also get vision from their skills like NS and KOTL and also zeus and spec, kind of sad to see the 4200 gold kind of lost it's value so fast.

    But if you think your upgrade is giving better safety thank pike, I guess you can leave it like that and let's see how other's opinion about this.
     
  11. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    you just named a situation where you shouldn't buy this aghanim. Wouldn't that make it a -situational- pick?
    Pike is good once you get caught. This upgrade is good because you might never get caught in the first place.
     
  12. flamegod0

    flamegod0 Member

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    OK if you think like that. Maybe good buff from alchemist too. Or as 4th item after blink and basic necessities, or 6th item after blink and 2 midgame/luxuries item. I don't know. This kind of mechanic has never been introduced before anyway, so need testing too.

    I still would prefer something that is more practical for 4200 gold and one slot.
     
  13. effreit89

    effreit89 Member

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    I think I like the other Sniper ASU suggestion of "focused Shrapnel" where he fires it all in a burst instead of DoT and massive slow > would fit into a caster sniper build, preferably with charge-cd reduction also if you buy the Aghs.

    He would still have the original Shrapnel of course.
     
    flamegod0 likes this.
  14. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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  15. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    Bump
    Sniper aghs really needs a remake
     
  16. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    I like the idea, but would also point that flamegod0 is mostly right - 4,200 is too big of a price for bad stats (scepter is not good stats investment as we all know) and one ability, which does not increase the output of a carry hero.

    So I can suggest you to think about a certain solution around that - you think about the details.
    Scepter to add additional active ability to his passives (one, or both) which have some form of a drawback.
    as example:
    Take Aim active - require 2 seconds channeling time to turn on and off, making sniper unable to move but double the passive bonus of the ability (meaning +800 range instead of +400 when active, but hinders him at 0 movement speed) with the additional benefit you mentioned (shooting doesn't reveal his location).

    Head-shot active (leg shot ?) - remove the bonus damage, but increase the chances to 100% per hit (basically slow and knock-back talent synergy, which would require certain amount of attack speed before that to be very efficient to keep the enemy at bay) for X seconds with X seconds cooldown.


    Also I wish to state that his current Scepter upgrade is not useless at all, just situational.
    A build which includes damage item over AS or balanced build is benefiting nice from an Aghanim.
    You can easily try building (even in a lobby 'test' game), having Desolator and other pure damage items like Battlefury (which is also required for the mana regeneration), Rapier and for some control Basher is actually legit, while frowned upon.

    Not building his usual AS focused and utility items like Dragon Lance, FS, Manta, Shadow Blade, Mjollnir, Butterfly etc. hinder his viability outside of ultimate, but with high damage and proper talents (CD reduction and ultimate cast time) he can transition into pretty decent high damage output caster, able to use ultimate every few seconds dealing huge damage to multiple people is no joke when besieging or defending high ground. Being able to use it from 3,000 range every 8 and a half seconds is amazin.
     
  17. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    Assassinate deals 600/900/1200 extra damage to summoned unit and has its cooldown halved for such use.​

    BAM! We then have something actually sounds like an upgrade again. And it is Sniper-ish as well.
     
  18. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    It's meant to be a survivability item for sniper. He already has almost every DPS item viable, so he really doesn't need a dps/burst aghanim. Also part of the reason why his aghs is the worst aggies in the game ever.

    It is an aghanim downgrade. Easily the worst upgrade in the history of dota. You need so much gold to deal even the regular amount of damage after late game reductions. Usually this means a rapier is a must have but then why not just go full right click build when the pay off for sniper aghs is so bad?

    Sounds incredibly niche and would see even less play than his current one. Just a big middle finger for Warlock.
     
  19. Volcove

    Volcove Member

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    While it is certainly situational, the upgrade is very unique as far as upgrades go, and fits the hero reasonably well. He is largely about positioning, after all, and this can potentially aid that in certain situations/lineups.

    It has potential for sure, and at the very least, it is more viable than the current upgrade. T-up.
     
  20. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    What if it also purges the target?

    Dispelling most buffs and adding 3s purge slow on top of it