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Apparently you can now see matches you were reported in

Discussion in 'Dota Chat' started by ManOnTheCan, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. Nisamraw

    Nisamraw Member

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    It only shows how limited & abusable the system is. You have tons of players that are feeding like hell that are given the ability to report you. I'm pretty sure I was reported on my last game, my mid Invo is 5-15, still not level 25 in a 55min game (he has midas). I started as a support Leshrac, and ended up carrying it on my back, 4v5.

    I have to deal with that level of retardedness. My Invo is utterly garbage and cancer, he puts the blame on me for each of his mistakes (because blame supports right), I have to play twice or thrice as hard because we're only 2 playing it, and I probably get FUCKEN REPORTED BY THAT TRASH at the end, when I have none for him, and I win it for this trash. He has 12k damage done in this 55min game.

    Cores that are under 300gpm in any lenghty game should lose all ability to report anyone in said game. Period. We can exclude "noob games" of course (accounts that have few games played), but no mercy for people that have >500 games played. I can code it in 1h, I'm dead serious.

    I mean, stop. Just stop this insanity. Give the role to anyone else but the clown that is currently in charge. I could do a better job designing it, 200% guaranteed. Anyone could really, probably even a monkey. EVEN by keeping this current useless form, we could still improve it in maaaaany ways. QoL buffs: people afk under shadow amulet > abandon. People getting xp every 5min > abandon. Feeding courier on purpose more than three times > ban after game reviewing. No kills, shit ton of deaths + no assist > ban etc. Cores under 300gpm/300xpm after 40min > lose ability to report anyone for X games. Could do the same for supports with wards etc. Sooo many easy improvements to make the matchmaking less cancerous.
     
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  2. Abdulink

    Abdulink Member

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    Shhhh how dare you criticize the divine report system created by the might lord GABEN!
     
    frigidsoul likes this.
  3. Skurai

    Skurai Member

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    This is good news. I am not surprised if one gets reported for pawning the other or just due to teamates unreasonable anger lol.
     
  4. Abdulink

    Abdulink Member

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    Or making an unorthodox item. Just had two retards start griefing and spamming all chat report PA cos I made MoM on her.

    But of course, Volvo's bootlicking loyal army means this crappy report system will probably never get improved.
     
    frigidsoul likes this.
  5. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    And it's a good thing, freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom of consequences.
    Someone doesn't like your way of playing - he can give a feedback, some of you think it's bad - but there are two cases.
    1) Most players can't even imagine what will be without a report system;
    2) Some are so toxic that they can't even comprehend it and their opinion doesn't matter on the particular topic, because they are the problem.

    I sympathies for being reports out of spite and for unorthodox item builds or hero picks.
    What a player pick, how he play the hero and what items he build is only for him - I don't care - even if it's not efficient and make our team lose the game - as long as it's not intentional but for the sake of fun, test, personal style etc.
    There are people who do care and give those reports.

    But guess what, you need to accumulate a lot of reports for it to be consequences. So by the rule of statistics - it's even out after few games not meeting people such as those.

    Multiple way of dealing with it and if you are not taking measures despite the fact you know how the system is working and what type of behavior is tolerated by the community and what is not - then ... you are not very social person.
    By the way the report system in DotA is working wonderfully, guess what the root of the problem is with players reporting out of spite or for different opinion or w/e - the community a.k.a. players who do it despite not being intended as such.


    Crybabies which only complain from how a said system works usually are not very smart and does not succeed in life, guess what - our whole society is working with such laws and systems, some good, some bad.
     
    MrFrank likes this.
  6. Nisamraw

    Nisamraw Member

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    Yeah but the only issue with your statement is that you have no idea how it actually works, because only Valve knows the actual details, unless you're not telling us something about your actual job (working at Valve? I highly doubt that). So, you're only talking out of thin air, like you usually do.

    Same thing, talking out of thin air. Unless you can back it up of course with some solid evidences. Or else, it's just your own opinion, which I highly disagree with.

    You know what? I totally agree with that. The only difference is that unlike you, my conclusion is to prevent people from abusing the system, not "trusting people to use the system right" because most of them are dumb as shit and won't. Even if they are "smart", they can still abuse the system out of malicious intent. It's like saying that you would trust all tax payers to do their tax return without cheating. Sorry, but that's not how the world works, and therefore, that's why the IRS exists in every state of this world.

    Dumbest thing I've ever read, and that's an ad personam claim with no evidence if I ever saw one. How would you feel if I said: "ass-kisers which only comply to said system are usually not very smart, does not success in life etc".

    I mean, man. You're apparently no rocket scientist, but stating that we have to comply to flawed systems or laws because "that's the way it is so we should suck it up" is seriously the dumbest thing I've ever read. For one thing, things aren't static, set in stone, and unchangeable - thank god. With people like you, we would still be living in the stone ages or whatever dictatorial state because "hey, that's the law/state of things. It's beyond broken, but we have to comply and not aspire to greater/better - or even just different - things". Funniest thing being that you actually recognize that "laws and systems" can be bad.

    Secondly, I don't know what's your deal, but in what world DotA is a democratic society with laws or whatever? It's a game, owned by a private corporation. And last time I checked, Valve wasn't really on the democratic side of thing when it came to its games. Also, when did the report system ever was "democratic"? When did it become a majority rule thing? Because last time I checked, it wasn't. Reporting someone does not equal to vote in any shape or form.

    So yeah, bottom line, if you want to stew in your own juices "because that's the way it is" (12y old way of thinking) it's up to you. But don't try to drag everyone down with you, thank you.
     
  7. Oesile

    Oesile Member

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    Not being able to adapt, and blaming circumstances that are equal for everyone is a childish way of thinking. Every system, including the one we live in, will be flawed in some manner- the only solution is to improve yourself.

    Perhaps you should read into the meaning of what others say rather then the literal word, because I understood his message just fine.
     
  8. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    So for people who were sent to Low Prio, how many reports did it take?
     
  9. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @ManOnTheCan and w/e can answer:
    Yes, outside of two or more abandons or multiple reports, what other way is there to be send to Low Priority ?

    @Nisamraw:
    Please, first try to comprehend what I'm talking about - then answer properly.
    Making me give you arguments for every single thing you stated is for very little results on my end you basically stated - "you don't know nothing, because you defend the system" and "because people like you there are no changes".

    Trust me, if people like me were in charge, the majority of the population would be suffering hard. I'm against chaos and against stupidity, law and order with so much force and violence that you would think at least 10 times before breaking any rule.

    So ... tell me when was the last time you throw some garbage outside of the designated zones or cross on red light ?
     
  10. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    Yeah I'm just wondering how many reports it takes.
     
  11. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @ManOnTheCan:
    Don't know for sure, but I can guess that it depends on the behavior score as well - but can't be sure.
     
  12. Nisamraw

    Nisamraw Member

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    Doesn't make any sense with your current stance on this broken report system then, because as of now, people are free to do whatever they want with little to no consequences. Therefore, we're faaaar from the "the system is working fine" you were talking about. Afterall, I just want a quality game where game ruiners are punished as they should be. This system simply does not cut it. And it's not about others, it's also about myself. If I ruin games, I should be banned from the game. Period. As of now, it's totally unfair. Games in DotA take a good amount of time, even those which are ruined min 0 you can expect to spend at least 20 to 30min in it (tag time + pick time + play time). Not only is the game ruined, but you're expected to stay until the end, or else you're the one going to low prio.

    I'm okay with the "work on yourself blablabla". But the thing is, this has nothing to do with people that are here to ruin games from min 0. I don't even talk to them, they just ruin on purpose. Me being a better person or what-not, has absolutely 0 influence on them. Sure, if I start to trash talk them etc (deserved or not, that's another debate), I could understand your point to some extent, but I don't.

    Now, I'm all for a gradual answer, as in I don't want people to be banned from a single game, but the fact that you cannot report someone under an easy circumstance, that is that you don't have any report left, show how limited this system is. And don't get me wrong, I'm not wasting those reports on people that have weird item builds etc, as long as they played and tried. No, I'm talking about straigth and simple game ruiners whose sole purpose is to grief when they tag to play DotA. 3 reports just aren't enough if you play more than 10 games per week, believe me.

    Also, note that I'm only mentioning players that are in my team, because reporting someone that is on the other side has little to no effect since you can only report him for communication abuse. Sorry, but I'm not having any more fun when griefers are the other way. You can't seriously tell me that this is "work perfectly as intended/can't be better".

    I also wanted to add that the lack of transparency is also an issue, and that's why I was telling you that you were "talking out of thin air". Because we actually don't know any relevant numbers. Stating that it's working as intended when no one knows precisely how it's intended to be in the first place, makes no sense. Unless you have some guidebook with precise rules that I'm not aware of, which I would be really interested in reading. It wasn't just an argument to belittle yours, I understand where you're getting at. I can actually prove that the system isn't working just by checking at some ruiners' game profiles: they still aren't banned nor playing in LP (single draft mode). It's easy to prove, as long as their profiles are not private.

    Some sad people play DotA just to ruin games. The sole fact that they aren't banned after 10 games, and forced into creating a new account, is proof enough that it isn't working at all, therefore it's terribly flawed, therefore it should be at least improved. I also understand the "no system is perfect" part, but that's not an excuse, nor a valid argument. I mean, by that logic, rather go YOLO-anything-goes and have no report system at all because it serves no purpose.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
    kamukag3e and frigidsoul like this.
  13. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @Nisamraw:
    I agree that the system can be improved, it's not perfect - it's not even remotely good, but it's not bad ether, just a bit cringe.
    The problem is that a better system can't be developed and written over small amount of time and understand - a big company won't invest money to brainstorm and 'invent' better system just for the pleasure of doing so - they need profits, it won't bring them any, not even a cent and that's with hundreds of dollars investment.

    Ruin-ers are punished right now, just as everything else in the current system - over the course of a lot of games, that's bad but can't be helped. If punishment can be brought in a single game then innocent people can be punished as well. There is not a single rule which doesn't have it's drawbacks. For example a support which game doesn't go well can easily accumulate deaths especially versus well fed very mobile enemy such as Storm or Tinker, who can basically kill in few seconds from the other side of the map. Then someone not fund of the game putting the 'intentional' feed and here you go - if it's automated that is. Manual system doesn't work in such a large scale, volunteers are not reliable and usually abuse their power.

    Every single game have it's rotten apples in their player-base, DotA is on the lower side in comparison to other big names.
    Yes, you can't influence them, no one can. They are the cancer of our world and will continue doing so unless you have very strict measures which - if done will restrict the freedom of everyone ... we don't want that as well.

    Punishment doesn't work - it's just a game, if you ban them - they will come back in a free-to-play game, because their numbers nothing can work against them on a small scale. On a big scale you have violation of some freedom.

    Look above - but summary - automated system can be abused, manual can't be implemented.

    I've done a simple math about the subject, hiring workers to do this would require millions monthly.
    CS have a volunteer system that manually watch and punish players - it's far away from free of idiots and the game is not even free-to-play so a minimum investment of 5-10$ is required to get an account. In DotA players will just register 100 accounts and he can do w/e even if you ban them after a single game.


    Previously you could report enemies and it was abused even harder, don't you recall ? Receiving reports and being send to LPQ because you dominate them too hard ? In a snow-ball type of game ?!

    It's work as intended because it is intended as such. The power of numbers.
    Rating doesn't work in a game or two - it's accurate after more then hundred of games. Report system is basically the same.
    No matter how bad it is in the short run.

    Transparency is always an issue. If you have full access - you are free to think of ways to heavily abuse it - not good.
    If you have no access - you don't know what is happening at all.
    But at the end Valve is what decides how much information you can have on the topic.
    Your only choices are to play the game or not. And on your previous comments - I'm not against changes - I just don't think complaining out loud is of any help. Company have policy which they follow and nothing will sway them the other way unless money is involved but doing so make me thing about sounding like a cry-baby or basically what those SJW, BLM and similar movements looks like from aside.
    A lot of people choosing not to play the game is the only thing which can do so, not complains.

    As an example - their custom maps are broken, their TI promotion or w/e it's called is rotten and sucks ... then they make 100 millions last year ... do you think they will change their moves after it grants them 100 million dollars in few months ?! I surely won't if I were in their shoes.

    Are you sure they are ruining on purpose ? Are you sure those players are not some account buyers with very high ego which sound like 'know it all' and have ~40-45% win-rate after they acquire their account ?
     
  14. vorsybl

    vorsybl Member

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    Wouldn't it be an easy solution to play with people you know?
     
  15. sweetsourpanda

    sweetsourpanda Member

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    I agree that Valve needs to do something about this. It's like with Yelp - the app for reviewing businesses, there are ways that stupid/toxic people are dealt with. There are people who go on Yelp and give every business they've ever been to 1 star. If that person visits your business and gives you 1 star, does it mean your business is bad? No, because their rating is meaningless. Everyone gets 1 star. Now, on the other hand, take someone who gives an average of 4 stars and almost never gives a 1 star rating, and they've had a Yelp account for 5 years and given maybe 3 1 star ratings in that time. Now this person gives your business 1 star. Is that a bad sign? It sure is. Yelp has algorithms in place to deal with these kinds of things.

    Translating this to Dota - imagine you have a high MMR player with a high behaviour score who only gives out, on average, 1 report every 20 games. A report from such a player should be taken seriously. On the other hand, imagine you have a 700 MMR, D behaviour score scrub who uses reports as fast as he gets them. Do his reports mean anything? No, no, not at all. I really hope Dota already takes this into account, but it seems not. What they've done is give people limited reports in the hopes that people will use them sparingly. This is stupid. Reports should be unlimited, but they should apply basic algorithms to them so that if bad players use reports all the time, reports from those players specifically become meaningless.
     
  16. SebL

    SebL New Member

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    I am constantly trashtalking the enemy team throughout the entire game - in fact I strongly believe this game is designed to trashtalk your enemy team :)
    I am playing LC without dagger and roaming 4 position Alchemist without radiance or armlet.
    I am in 3.5k mmr Europe.

    And my report / commend ratio is like 1/20. (No LP or mute ban for over 24 months now).

    I should have more reports than any of you guys and I don't.
    How come?
     
  17. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    Valve conspiracy
     
  18. MrFrank

    MrFrank Member

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    Valve (((conspiracy)))